Revelations 20:12

Originally posted by Rajk999
Is this very important piece of information in the Bible somewhere? Or is it just an opinion of yours?

As far as I can remember the teachings of Christ are full of works that are required for salvation.

Such as?

Originally posted by kirksey957
I am curious as to how you think the Christian church might be different if the book of Revelation did not exist?

?

Originally posted by whodey
Such as?

Matt 25 for example

Originally posted by kirksey957
I noticed in another thread where you commented on the issue of inerrancy in which you took the stance that it was unfortunate that Christians create divisive issues. I'm not exactly sure how you worded it, but it struck me that the issue of adhering to biblical inerrancy is an example of thinking that runs contrary to the concept of "my yoke is easy."

please connect the concepts.

concept of "my yoke is easy" v. concept of "biblical innerancy

how do these measure up to the concept of "divisive issues?"

Originally posted by no1marauder
Thanks for the warning. Have you ever read Matthew 25:30-46?

several times.
and the stuff around it.

jesus said that we must follow all of the law in order to be saved. See Matt. 19:16-30. see especially matt. 19:19. "love your neighbor as yourself."

his disciples asked him who could be saved if it required perfection. he responded that it is impossible. only with god is it possible, i.e. to save.

loving your neighbor is vital to salvation. all the law is summed up in loving god and loving your neighbor. see matt. 7:7-12. see especially matt. 7:12. see also matt. 22:34-46. see especially matt. 22:37-40.

without these no man can be saved. but, the problem is no man can do these without god. with man it is impossible. even if we know that this is what is required we cannot do it without god. even if we want to do this, we cannot without god doing it in us. see romans 7:14-25. see especially romans 7:18. see also phillipians 2:1-18. see especially phillipians 2:13.

conclusion.
the ability to serve one's neighbor as the things listed in matt. 25 and thereby serve the lord, comes from the lord himself. one cannot do without the lord working in and through the man. the lord works in and through only those who have been saved. therefore those who did these things in the manner laid out, which was ultimately for god's service and his glory, were believers in jesus christ.
those who did not do the works in the manner laid out before them, either not doing them at all, or doing them but not out of love for god, his service, and his glory, are not believers in jesus christ.
so, these works are evidences of the internal conversion and belief in jesus christ which motivates his people to serve him.

Originally posted by Big Mac
please connect the concepts.

concept of "my yoke is easy" v. concept of "biblical innerancy

how do these measure up to the concept of "divisive issues?"

Sure. My experience with people who believe in biblical inerrancy is that they tend to be very rule oriented. They tend to focus on rules of righteousness.

As Ivanhoe has pointed out before, my theology tends to want to make the "tent bigger." A relaxed attitude toward people who may have an interest in faith in which we appeal by attraction instead of promoting fear and rejection is essentially what I think "my yoke is easy" is all about.

Here is a line frome Hamlet that I like a lot related to this idea we are talking about: "But, my good brother, do not as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven; whiles like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads, and recks not his own rede (counsel)."

Originally posted by Big Mac
the lord works in and through only those who have been saved. .

Do you mind quoting where you found this in the Bible ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you mind quoting where you found this in the Bible ?

Uh...so why did Jesus come into the world if he only works with the "saved"?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you mind quoting where you found this in the Bible ?

i've already given you the references. did you read them? or are you just questioning for questioning's sake.

look at phillipians 2.

but, i must clarify for you. the lord works in the ways mentioned in matt. 25.

according to proverbs 21:1 our thoughts and actions are "directed" in the hands of god.
so, to be exact, the lord works in everyone. but, these specific actions listed in matt. 25 are done BY the lord in the believer for the lord's own glory and his pleasure.

Originally posted by dottewell
Not really. Y'see, if I'm also destined for the "fiery lake" simply because my "god-given" intellect tells me there's no god, I'd much rather he hadn't bothered.

I know not where you're bound, but don't you think it odd that others equally endowed by their Creator with intellectual abilities have not reached a similar conclusion?

Originally posted by kirksey957
Sure. My experience with people who believe in biblical inerrancy is that they tend to be very rule oriented. They tend to focus on rules of righteousness.

As Ivanhoe has pointed out before, my theology tends to want to make the "tent bigger." A relaxed attitude toward people who may have an interest in faith in which we appeal by attraction inste ...[text shortened]... ne, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads, and recks not his own rede (counsel)."

unfortunately you are correct. many people take a performance based approach to christianity. many of them cannot accept that god did all the work necessary for salvation. the truth is...

if you are a chirstian...
you will never be more saved (effectually) than you are right now.
god will never love you more than he does right now.

the life of faith is not about following rules. it is a life of love. yes, i know, many people who claim to be christian don't behave this way. but, i assure that is what the bible teaches. yes, there are behavior modifications that take place after conversion, but that is wrought by the holy spirit. none of the behaviors are required to be rectified before salvation or by your own strength after salvation. the message of christianity is joy and happiness in the most full and exciting way possible. a connection to the most powerful, loving, beautiful being in the universe. that's pretty exciting. he loves perfectly. so, if you are a believer, you are loved by the most loving, joy-filled, happy person ever. god is happy. pslam 16:11 says that in god's presence is the fullness of joy, and in his right hand are pleasures forever more. that does not lend itself to following rules for god's approval. he is approved in his son. his son, jesus christ, is in me. he is approved in christ in me.

i believe the bible is completely inerrant, and i don't take a rule-based approach to christianity.

Originally posted by Big Mac
unfortunately you are correct. many people take a performance based approach to christianity. many of them cannot accept that god did all the work necessary for salvation. the truth is...

if you are a chirstian...
you will never be more saved (effectually) than you are right now.
god will never love you more than he does right now.

the life of faith ...[text shortened]... e the bible is completely inerrant, and i don't take a rule-based approach to christianity.

Why is inerrancy important to you as a Christian?

Originally posted by kirksey957
Sure. My experience with people who believe in biblical inerrancy is that they tend to be very rule oriented. They tend to focus on rules of righteousness.

As Ivanhoe has pointed out before, my theology tends to want to make the "tent bigger." A relaxed attitude toward people who may have an interest in faith in which we appeal by attraction inste ...[text shortened]... ne, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads, and recks not his own rede (counsel)."

My experience with people who believe in biblical inerrancy is that they tend to be very rule oriented. They tend to focus on rules of righteousness.
Couldn't agree more. Their tight-fisted approach to life, however, precludes them from the very thing they are after: happiness. It doesn't happen solely to Christians, however. There exists a personality type that demands perfection to such an impossible degree, that it drives the driver blind and mad.

They become blind to their own imperfections and mad as a general rule, their very ambition forcing them further away from their supposed lofty goals.

However, like others here, I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible's autographs and I doubt any who know me would say I am all about the "rules," or in an absurd pursuit of impossible attainments.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Why is inerrancy important to you as a Christian?

there is no basis of faith found outside the bible. jesus of the bible is the only jesus that can save. the god of the bible is the only god of the universe. everything else is open to personal "feelings" and interpretations. could be bad chinese food from last night. the bible is the only source of truth.

Originally posted by Big Mac
there is no basis of faith found outside the bible. jesus of the bible is the only jesus that can save. the god of the bible is the only god of the universe. everything else is open to personal "feelings" and interpretations. could be bad chinese food from last night. the bible is the only source of truth.

Do you mean to tell me that there is no truth outside of the Bible? That is quite a statement. I think we are capable of voicing truth and taking in truths from many areas and many different faiths.

If one of my kids says, "hey, dad you're not spending enough time with me" is this not a "truth"?

If I experience a profound sense of wonder at a sunset or a beautiful mountain, is this not a truth?

If I experience profound pain and find comfort in the presence of someone who has recovered from similar pain, is this not a spiritual truth.

If I am grateful for my family, a roof over my head and a full belly, is this not a spirtual sense of well-being?

If I listen to Rachmaninov's Vespers and experience a profound sense of inner peace, who is to say that God is not speaking to me?