27 Sep 10
2 edits
Originally posted by vishvahetu“...But thats just it,empirical evidence (observation) does reveal deliberate functioning and intelligent purpose....but you have to have the eyes to see that....”
Andrew Hamilton
But thats just it,empirical evidence (observation) does reveal deliberate functioning and intelligent purpose....but you have to have the eyes to see that.
If there were no purpose or deliberate functioning we would not have things of beauty and function.....a race horse in full flight is beautifull, so to is an eagle, and well, expl ...[text shortened]... ll proper survival tactics.
Honest men know that there is a plan, and a plan maker.
vishva
yes; delusional eyes.
“...If there were no purpose or deliberate functioning we would not have things of beauty and function.....”
How does one logically follow from the other?
There is no logical contradiction in evolution creating non-deliberate functionality and also beauty.
For example, flowers did not particularly evolve to please us but rather to attract insects with distinctive colours and shapes. Many thing that evolved to have distinctive colours and shapes are bound to look beautiful to use simply because of the way we perceive beauty in what we see -so no surprises there.
“...a race horse in full flight is beautifull,...”
Race horses have been bred to be fast-running and this effects there appearance. Wild horses have only evolved to pass-on their genes. Either way, whether a horse looks beautiful to you is coincidental.
“...and well, explain the peacock,...”
Perhaps this is being a bit pedantic but evolution is NOT about survival of the fittest individuals! (a common simplistic misconception ) The peacock tail feathers undoubtedly hinders survival but, from an evolutionary perspective, more than 'compensates' for that by increasing the chances of attracting a mate and so passing on the male peacock's genes. Natural selection ultimately selects for genes rather than individuals. Evolution is not really about survival of the fittest individuals by rather it is about survival of the most advantageous genes. This is why the sterile worker ants evolved to help their colony even though this does not help the workers to survive! -it is because the queen and other members of the some colony share many genes and so by helping the colony they are indirectly helping to pass on their own genes.
“...if life is about survival then......”
The theory of evolution doesn’t imply any sort of purpose to life thus doesn’t imply “life is about survival” if that is what you are implying here.
“...Honest men know that there is a plan, and a plan maker....”
And the evidence for this “plan” is.....?
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonYou win....lets all go home now!
“...But thats just it,empirical evidence (observation) does reveal deliberate functioning and intelligent purpose....but you have to have the eyes to see that....”
yes; delusional eyes.
“...If there were no purpose or deliberate functioning we would not have things of beauty and function.....”
How does one logically follow from the other? ...[text shortened]... know that there is a plan, and a plan maker....”
And the evidence for this “plan” is.....?
vishva
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuEdit: “What ever i know comes from the timeless knowledge of Vedanta, but to understand Vedanta, one must loose the envious nature towards God. And the starting point with that is, to aknowledge Gods reality.”
The materal world is but a perverted reflection of the spiritual world........or,the materal world is the shadow, and the spiritual world is the reality.
The spiritual world has transcendental characteristics, and it is not devoid of them as you suggest.
I never said the plan maker established life, because life is eternal without beginning or end, ...[text shortened]... ature towards God.
And the starting point with that is, to aknowledge Gods reality.
vishva
Whatever you believe blindly, it sprung from the blind religious doctrines of your denomination, and out of your desire to find a refuge without having conduct prior to your "acknowledge" the proper evaluation of the mind. Of course you are free to acknowledge blindly whatever you want;
Edit: “I never said the plan maker established life, because life is eternal without beginning or end, so there was never a time that life became established...it always existed. (i mean life as the spiritual energy as against the material energy)
When you claimed that “Honest men know that there is a plan, and a plan maker.”, you clearly implied that "the plan maker" established the manifested phenomenon of Life according to a "plan". This is accepted by your denomination too, so I will give it one more try:
“In the beginning of the creation”, says Suta Gosvami, “Lord first expanded Himself in the universal form of the purusa incarnation and manifested all the ingredients for the material creation”. So I have to conclude that before the “beginning of the creation” the so called “Lord” was keeping himself contained strictly in his non-manifested self; and at a given time he decided to be manifested by introducing at first Karman. This is the basic “plan” and, in fact, regarding this matter Suta Gosvami says: “In the beginning of the material creation, that Absolute Personality of Godhead (Vasudeva), in His transcendental position, created the energies of cause and effect by His own internal energy.”
So prey tell: where exactly the “always existing” but not manifested Life was “existent” before the so called purusa incarnation, and how did you came to know such a thing? How and by which means did you came to monitor on your own the existence of the non-manifested phenomenon of Life in a realm of a non-existent existence that lays beyond your cognizance?
😵
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by black beetleIf i believe blindly, "blind religious doctrine", then I wont bother you dear sir with any comments.
Edit: “What ever i know comes from the timeless knowledge of Vedanta, but to understand Vedanta, one must loose the envious nature towards God. And the starting point with that is, to aknowledge Gods reality.”
Whatever you believe blindly, it sprung from the blind religious doctrines of your denomination, and out of your desire to find a refuge witho ...[text shortened]... non of Life in a realm of a non-existent existence that lays beyond your cognizance?
😵
vishva
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by black beetleDo you not think that God in "a thought" could create ANYTHING, including "Let there be Light, and there was Light" to the void that was there opposed to what ONLY IS LIGHT?
Edit: “What ever i know comes from the timeless knowledge of Vedanta, but to understand Vedanta, one must loose the envious nature towards God. And the starting point with that is, to aknowledge Gods reality.”
Whatever you believe blindly, it sprung from the blind religious doctrines of your denomination, and out of your desire to find a refuge witho ...[text shortened]... non of Life in a realm of a non-existent existence that lays beyond your cognizance?
😵
The reference of 7 days the earth was made is a "THOUGHT OF UNDERSTANDING", a metaphor if you will, of the past 6,000 yrs.
To which on the 7th day HE RESTED, as it states in Revelation that 1,000 yrs. of peace shall reign on earth, which is actually eliminating all falsity, thereby time obsolete...
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuI understand;
If i believe blindly, "blind religious doctrine", then I wont bother you dear sir with any comments.
vishva
And why, child of a noble family vishvahetu, did you choose to take refuge by means of accepting blindly somebody else's religious beliefs? Was it so hard to take no refuge at all? Or was it too hard to evaluate and confirm on your own that the nature of the Dharma is empty?
😵
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by tacoandlettuceI do beleive this specific "God" of yours is a delusion of yours
Do you not think that God in "a thought" could create ANYTHING, including "Let there be Light, and there was Light" to the void that was there opposed to what ONLY IS LIGHT?
The reference of 7 days the earth was made is a "THOUGHT OF UNDERSTANDING", a metaphor if you will, of the past 6,000 yrs.
To which on the 7th day HE RESTED, as it states i ...[text shortened]... shall reign on earth, which is actually eliminating all falsity, thereby time obsolete...
😵
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by black beetleAll I can say is ...Wow, how do you do it, you are the one (good luck with that)
I understand;
And why, child of a noble family vishvahetu, did you choose to take refuge by means of accepting blindly somebody else's religious beliefs? Was it so hard to take no refuge at all? Or was it too hard to evaluate and confirm on your own that the nature of the Dharma is empty?
😵
vishva
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuI do it by means of using my own mind the way I want, and at a given time my mind entered a condition where it became no-mind. I am fully aware of that condition constantly, and this way I rejected all the contradictory thoughts. When I passed the gateless gate I found myself to a point where mind disappears. And when my mind disappeared I found my self present in his totality.
All I can say is ...Wow, how do you do it, you are the one (good luck with that)
vishva
I understand that your Hare Krsna-oriented mind has become total, thus your self became so obscured that you cannot locate it. Now go on, use your mind just the way you are using your hands and your legs. Keep your mind still and start ruling it just the way you are ruling any other passive object. Use your mind when you want to use it, and when you want to speak to me use it properly before you talk to me. Whatever you do, proceed after your own evaluation of the mind;
Child of a noble family vishvahetu,
Listen to me now without distraction: there is no such a thing as an independently existing object of mind called "the highest, most fulfilled, awakened or enlightened mind". You can proceed solely by means of this internally intuitive process I described earlier, which is spontaneous and a part of your own nature because your nature is the nature of the mind
😵
29 Sep 10
Originally posted by tacoandlettuceI "lesson" no thing🙂
What I don't understand is why an intelligent man as yourself desires to lesson it by insulting another?
And what exactly did I insult of yours? Did I insult your legs, or your ears, or your eyes, or your nose, or your hair?
You left your mind totally free to wander here and there without keeping it still in order to use it properly and thus understand what exactly I told you earlier, so your uncontrolled mind alone believed that I insulted a part or the whole of your self. However you should know by now that there is no self to be insulted. You should know by now that your mind went once more total and obscured your self, and then hi-jacked you and created the delusional thought that you are insulted. And you believed this thought on the spot without conducting your evaluation of the mind, so you are left saddled with your delusion that your self was insulted.
Earlier I answered you the way I did because I had to have you returned herenow with your mind still and under your full control. Delusions can easily absorb one’s life, so I concentrate on well-being and on the peace of mind herenow -and on the spot Thus Come One is smiling; then black beetle grins from ear to ear and wanna dance for he knows Suffering out of oppression and he knows that he can start transmitting it to you; he cuts off Accumulation out of enticement and he knows that he can start transmitting it to you; he aspires towards Extinction as he certified it by means of his evaluation of the mind as he was walking down the Way, and he knows that he can start transmitting it to you; and he knows that he can start transmitting to you that he cultivates the Way out of his own empty nature;
There Is No Thing To Be Transmitted. Always feel free to conduct your own evaluation. Nobody really ever insulted you😵
29 Sep 10
Originally posted by black beetleYou most assuredly had not I then, no, I was sticking up for a friend who deserved help from ridiculous actions of yours when you have intelligence and are aware of it, yet ARE NOT, to half the extent of it.. But I obviously stand not corrected, but correct by the likes of your reply.
I "lesson" no thing🙂
And what exactly did I insult of yours? Did I insult your legs, or your ears, or your eyes, or your nose, or your hair?
You left your mind totally free to wander here and there without keeping it still in order to use it properly and thus understand what exactly I told you earlier, so your uncontrolled mind alone believed that ...[text shortened]... ransmitted. Always feel free to conduct your own evaluation. Nobody really ever insulted you😵