27 Sep 10
3 edits
Originally posted by vishvahetuOh my!
Ever since I was a child, I have seen documentaries on TV showing a lightning bolt hitting the ground, and then life appears as a little one cell thingo, and now we have humans and million of species on the planet.
This is clearly a random accident, but what if it is, then how does the random accident perpetuate itself after that one incident, to give ...[text shortened]... n).. you see he wont recognize the intelligence factor, but calls it something else.
vishva
Tell you what vish; look at this post of yours, the words you chose, and placement of letters which form them. What was the probability that you would randomly type this stuff, pretty unlikely? Now consider all the posts that have been made today by every participant in the spirituality forums. What was the probability that those posts would be randomly made? Next consider all the posts that have been made in the last year in all forums here on RHP; what was the probability that they would all have been as they are as opposed to something else??? Practically zero; yet there they are!
Are we to assume the guiding hand of your god in this process or can we assume that these posts happend in response to other events and posts, and most importantly of all, independently of some guiding force?
The same is true with evolution, each little species is driven to survive and prosper; and each will be challenged by it's own share of adversity. In response to this adversity, these species, depending upon the threat they face and the number of different mutations that can occur within the species will either fail to adapt and die out, or successfully develop some traits through advantageous mutations (and 'culling of the weak'😉 that allows them to prosper. This species (possibly more complex) may now pose a threat to some other species who must now play the same game, or it may find a new threat to deal with. Let this carry on for billions of years with billions of species and it is not surprising we see the complexity we have today.
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by AgergHow does a little one cell thingo, know what survive means, how would it know, if I do this I will survive, and if I do that I wont......why does it want to survive at all, has it got something to do in the future to do, to survive for.
Oh my!
Tell you what vish; look at this post of yours, the words you chose, and placement of letters which form them. What was the probability that you would randomly type this stuff, pretty unlikely? Now consider all the posts that have been made today by every participant in the spirituality forums. What was the probability that those posts would be randoml ...[text shortened]... years with billions of species and it is not surprising we see the complexity we have today.
How does this thingo, know what a threat is or not....it would require intelligence to know of these things.
Your mathematical take on random events, will not explain away the fact, that intelligence and purpose are at the root of all creation.
vishva
27 Sep 10
3 edits
Originally posted by vishvahetuI should have said replicate or reproduce instead of survive; but it's essentially the same thing since for example the human species survives only if some it's members reproduce.
How does a little one cell thingo, know what survive means, how would it know, if I do this I will survive, and if I do that I wont......why does it want to survive at all, has it got something to do in the future to do, to survive for.
How does this thingo, know what a threat is or not....it would require intelligence to know of these things.
Your ...[text shortened]... explain away the fact, that intelligence and purpose are at the root of all creation.
vishva
I don't care to answer the rest of your post since you are, at best, feigning stupidity.
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by AgergWow, ignorance has a strong hold on you to call wisdom not correct knowledge, Aqerq
I should have said replicate or reproduce instead of survive; but it's essentially the same thing since for example the human species survives only if some it's members reproduce.
I don't care to answer the rest of your post since you are, at best, feigning stupidity.
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuThat is completely wrong. Dogs are less than 20,000 years old. They are "created" by domestication and selective breeding of the grey wolf. A bit like natural selection, but done artificially by humans to produce dogs of certain characteristics. Dog breeders do it all the time and produce the variety of breeds we have today.
Nothing is evolving into anything,....theres always been a dog and theres always been an elephant, but there have been some species that lived long ago on earth and have ceased to remain.
Elephants haven't always existed either.
27 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetu“...Ever since I was a child, I have seen documentaries on TV showing a lightning bolt hitting the ground, and then life appears as a little one cell thingo ...”
Ever since I was a child, I have seen documentaries on TV showing a lightning bolt hitting the ground, and then life appears as a little one cell thingo, and now we have humans and million of species on the planet.
This is clearly a random accident, but what if it is, then how does the random accident perpetuate itself after that one incident, to give ...[text shortened]... n).. you see he wont recognize the intelligence factor, but calls it something else.
vishva
TV often misrepresents scientific theory because they don’t really know much about it.
It is not scientifically particularly thought that a particular bolt of lighting caused biogenisis.
“...then life appears as a little one cell thingo, and now we have humans and million of species on the planet.
This is clearly a random accident, but ...”
Hang on, the formation of the first cell is NOT evolution but biogenesis. One has nothing to do with the other.
“...but what if it is, then how does THE random accident perpetuate itself after that one incident, to give us the world we find ourselves in now. ...” (my emphasis)
The above statement doesn’t make sense to me; we assume that biogenesis occurred just once (although it may have occurred more than once) but, however it occurred, it only needs to occur once and then there is no need for biogenesis to “perpetuate itself” because, after that, it would have already occurred. So I don’t know what you mean by that. Life “perpetuate itself” by reproduction but biogenesis doesn’t “perpetuate itself” because (presumably) it happens just once.
“....you see you would need a whole chain of continuing random accidents to keep the first random accident going...”
No, biogenisis happens only once (presumably ) and then stops (assuming it didn't occur elsewhere ) and (presumably ) never occurred again. So the “accident” (which presumably under the right conductions would be inevitable! ) of biogenesis doesn’t “keep going” as you imply and what happens next (accidents or no accidents) is irrelevant to the fact that biogenesis occurred first, so, again, I don't know what you mean.
“...When scientists look into the micro world it is inconceivably complex,...”
This is no surprise as nature (and that includes evolution) doesn't put an upper limit to how “complex” something can be made to be. Extremely high complexity of life today is logically consistent with evolution.
“...with deliberate functioning,...”
Scientist have never “seen” “deliberate” functionality in life as you suggest here (because there is no empirical evidence showing “deliberate” functionality in life) but rather they merely see “functionality” in life.
“...The micro world is clearly functioning with intelligent purpose, ...”
According to what evidence?
27 Sep 10
Andrew Hamilton
But thats just it,empirical evidence (observation) does reveal deliberate functioning and intelligent purpose....but you have to have the eyes to see that.
If there were no purpose or deliberate functioning we would not have things of beauty and function.....a race horse in full flight is beautifull, so to is an eagle, and well, explain the peacock, if life is about survival then the peacock defies all proper survival tactics.
Honest men know that there is a plan, and a plan maker.
vishva
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by lauseyThey used to put cats in the tombs in Egypt ages ago...... all the species have been around for a very long time.
That is completely wrong. Dogs are less than 20,000 years old. They are "created" by domestication and selective breeding of the grey wolf. A bit like natural selection, but done artificially by humans to produce dogs of certain characteristics. Dog breeders do it all the time and produce the variety of breeds we have today.
Elephants haven't always existed either.
vishva
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuWhere did I mention cats? They are a completely different species.
They used to put cats in the tombs in Egypt ages ago...... all the species have been around for a very long time.
vishva
These Egyptian mummified cats were from less than 4,000 years ago anyway!
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelYeah I noticed that, but there does seem to be an uncanny similarity between the mindsets and way of communication of vishvahetu and tacoandlettuce. I eagerly await the "subtle" conversion from Christianity to the teachings of Vedanta on the part of taco, with much mutual adoration & back patting from both parties
I think its the underline that obscures the "g".. 🙂
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuSince you claim that a so called “plan” set in motion by a “plan maker” was necessary for the establishment of Life, you should also accept that no form of life exists prior to the characteristics of Life and their so called “creation”. But you deny such a thing, therefore you firmly accept that Life existed prior to its characteristics (because, according to your blind religious beliefs, the “plan maker” is an existent form of Life that created …Life and in addition transcends everything) and thus you believe that the core of Life is indeed without characteristics because the life of your so called “plan maker” lacks, as you claim, of characteristics.
Andrew Hamilton
But thats just it,empirical evidence (observation) does reveal deliberate functioning and intelligent purpose....but you have to have the eyes to see that.
If there were no purpose or deliberate functioning we would not have things of beauty and function.....a race horse in full flight is beautifull, so to is an eagle, and well, expl ...[text shortened]... ll proper survival tactics.
Honest men know that there is a plan, and a plan maker.
vishva
Leaving aside the fact that life without characteristics does not exist anywhere at all, I ask you: if a living entity without characteristics (as your so called “plan maker&rdquo😉 exists and set in motion a so called “plan”, to what do these characteristics extend and how did you came to know on your own about the existence of these characteristics along with the existence of the “plan maker” per se?
😵
27 Sep 10
3 edits
Originally posted by black beetleThe materal world is but a perverted reflection of the spiritual world........or,the materal world is the shadow, and the spiritual world is the reality.
Since you claim that a so called “plan” set in motion by a “plan maker” was necessary for the establishment of Life, you should also accept that no form of life exists prior to the characteristics of Life and their so called “creation”. But you deny such a thing, therefore you firmly accept that Life existed prior to its characteristics (because, accord ...[text shortened]... the existence of these characteristics along with the existence of the “plan maker” per se?
😵
The spiritual world has transcendental characteristics, and it is not devoid of them as you suggest.
I never said the plan maker established life, because life is eternal without beginning or end, so there was never a time that life became established...it always existed. (i mean life as the spiritual energy as against the material energy)
What ever i know comes from the timeless knowledge of Vedanta, but to understand Vedanta, one must loose the envious nature towards God.
And the starting point with that is, to aknowledge Gods reality.
vishva
27 Sep 10
Originally posted by AgergI was going to respond, but Iam not ready to be banned from this forum, just yet.
Yeah I noticed that, but there does seem to be an uncanny similarity between the mindsets and way of communication of vishvahetu and tacoandlettuce. I eagerly await the "subtle" conversion from Christianity to the teachings of Vedanta on the part of taco, with much mutual adoration & back patting from both parties