Spirituality
24 Feb 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecat
What is it with you and these walls of text? Does anybody actually read all through them?
Aaanyway, here's as far as I got:
[b]If I am going to be a human being, I have to be a Christian. Scripture has convinced me of that. And if I am going to be a Christian, I have to be a victorious one.
You don't have to be a christian. You in helping you out of your brainwashing!
If it makes you happy, good for you.[/b]
What is it with you and these walls of text? Does anybody actually read all through them?
Oh, I don't know who manages to read all of them. But the word of God will not return void. It will accomplish an opening or a hardening of a man's heart.
Aaanyway, here's as far as I got:
If I am going to be a human being, I have to be a Christian. Scripture has convinced me of that. And if I am going to be a Christian, I have to be a victorious one.
I am glad you read up that point. That was important.
You don't have to be a christian. You choose to be one. How anyone can argue with such vigour against reason and logic while failing to apply even the remotest semblance of scepticism to a collection of pre-scientific stories liberally peppered with miracle and magic is quite beyond me. And let's wait until after this 'rapture' of yours before we judge you 'victorious' eh?
I was thinking of me personally. if I ... ME am going to be a human being, I have found that a Christian one is what I ought to be.
I don't think I would characterize the entire Bible as "liberally peppered with miracle". There books which contain no miracles. You find in books like Ezra and Nehemiah about the return from Babylonian captivity, mostly a lot of dedication and faith and hard work.
But there are miracles which often occur in pairs. These scheme of God working supernatural works comes in matching pairs like a team. It is as if God were saying "That's right. You heard Me right. I did THIS and elsewhere I did THIS again. You read it right."
And often the signs are with profound symbolic meaning rather than just to awe everyone.
Do you have something to offer me more precious and of more superlative value and worth than Jesus Christ and eternal life ?
I offer you nothing. Alas, your false ideology obscures from you the value of this.
Well. God offers much. In fact God offers Himself ! Nothing can surpass that, you know ?
This is like the people standing at an auction of a rich man's house. People are requesting this or that valuable item. Finally a little child says. I want the OWNER. How wise. By obtaining the owner of the house the child received everything of riches possessed by the owner.
By receiving Christ we receive the eternally rich One Himself.
Do you have something more precious to offer me besides the truth ? You know the truth shall make you free.
I have freedom you can't even imagine from the confines of your faith.
What confines ? God is definite. Definite is not confined.
Christ's love is discribed as the measureless dimensions of the universe:
" ... you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be full of strength to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth are and to know the knowledge surpassing love of Christ, that you may be filled unto all the fulness of God." (Eph. 17b-19)
The BREADTH, LENGTH, HEIGHT and DEPTH are infinite. How broad is "the breadth" ? How long is "the length" ? How high is "the height", etc. ? They are infinite. They are the very dimensions of the universe with their unknown values.
The love of Christ is "knowledge-surpassing". It goes beyond any information scientific or otherwise we may have. And together, these Christ experiencers have a destiny to be "filled unto all the fulness of God".
Narrow? Stinted? This whole suspicion buys into Satan's lie that God is withholding some wonderful blessing from man. It is quite the contrary.
The Bible also says that God has removed my sins from me as far as the east is from the west. How far is the east from the west ? That is infinity. God has removed the guilt of my sins from me an infinite distance.
No wonder there is such a deep peace in knowing the knowledge surpassing love of Christ.
Your 'Truth' is only true from your blinkered viewpoint. Take a step to the side and it becomes a tissue of imagination and confusion.
Not so at all. To build a house on the words of Christ is to build upon a solid rock. To build elsewhere is to build on sinking sand.
The Old Testament prophesies that this MAN, this wonderful GOD-MAN will be as a great ROCK in a weary land -
"Indeed a King will reign according to righteousness, And the rulers will rule according to justice.
And a man will be like a refuge from the wind and a covering from the tempest, Like streams of water in a dry place, Like the shadow of a massive rock in a wasted land." (Isaiah 32:1,2)
THAT is Jesus Christ the Son of God - like a massive ROCK, like refreshing streams of water in a dry land. We can hide from the heat in the cool shade of this massive ROCK - Jesus the Son of God.
I don't consider my Christ as a religion. My Christ is a living Person. He is an unusual Person. That I have to admit. But He is a living Person.
I don't think God is the God of religion. I count God as the God of reality.
Yes, of course, but without the stuff you got from these old shepherd's stories, what do you know about it? Nothing. Why, I ask again, do you not apply the same intellectual rigour to your scripture as you do to, say, evolutionary theory? Nothing in your post addresses this issue.
I know something about evolutionary theory. It is very interesting.
but I am sorry. Evolutionary theory is not as fascinating to me as God incarnating as a man to bring about Godmen, brothers of Christ the Firstborn Son of God.
In a sense THAT is what evolutionary theory seems to be trying to arrive at - a life so well adopted that it lives forever evercoming every obstacle. Sure, if evolution does its job right in a few billion years then a life should have evolved which cannot be destroyed (maybe).
But why not look into Christ who brings us into that state having DEMONSTRATED it already through His death and resurrection ?
I have a suspicion that to some people, evolution theory is their idol to replace God. I wish to go with the reality - God - God in Christ victorious over EVERY environment and prevailing over sin and death.
Jesus will do a much much better job then evolution will do (IF macro evolution is true at all).
I can't be bothered to continue discussing your abominably long post on a point by point basis, sorry. I'm just not that interested in helping you out of your brainwashing!
Seriously, I really like science. I do. But for the real big issues of human existence I turn to the Son of God.
If it makes you happy, good for you.
I am indeed very fortunate to have received God's mercy. He has opened up the eyes of my heart. We are very joyful about this.
05 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillSorry, tl;dr, but I'm sure glad you're happy. 🙂
What is it with you and these walls of text? Does anybody actually read all through them?
Oh, I don't know who manages to read all of them. But the word of God will not return void. It will accomplish an opening or a hardening of a man's heart.
[quote]
Aaanyway, here's as far as I got:
If I am going to be a human being, I up the eyes of my heart. We are very joyful about this.
05 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI'm touched at your magnanimous and gracious happiness for me.
Sorry, tl;dr, but I'm sure glad you're happy. 🙂
Pat me on the head all you wish. If it makes you feel better, send me a package of lollipops.
We have in human history the Person and work of one Jesus of Nazareth.
You won't be albe to so easily dismiss such a figure with your condenscending "Oh, I am glad it makes you happy."
You are simply in need of truth.
05 Mar 12
Originally posted by jaywillNot patronising you Jaywill. I don't pretend to understand your position, the faith you have in those old stories, but I'm genuinely pleased for you if it makes you happy.
I'm touched at your magnanimous and gracious happiness for me.
Pat me on the head all you wish. If it makes you feel better, send me a package of lollipops.
We have in human history the Person and work of one Jesus of Nazareth.
You won't be albe to so easily dismiss such a figure with your condenscending "Oh, I am glad it makes you happy."
You are simply in need of [b]truth.[/b]
No, it's not truth I need. In fact, I've pretty much got everything I need, thanks.
05 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by avalanchethecatOkay, I believe you then that you are not trying to condescend.
Not patronising you Jaywill. I don't pretend to understand your position, the faith you have in those old stories, but I'm genuinely pleased for you if it makes you happy.
No, it's not truth I need. In fact, I've pretty much got everything I need, thanks.
But we are on the Titanic ... on the Titanic with everything you need.
"This ship is unsinka - bubble bubble bubble ... "
06 Mar 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI guess you agree with sunhouse, who believes Christianity is full of lies.
Whereas you're like one of those people who cheat and lie.
I like those lies better than your truth. So I will take my chances and
maybe Christ will forgive me for all my cheating and lying.
06 Mar 12
Originally posted by RJHindsI'm fine with christians who don't cheat and then lie about it.
I guess you agree with sunhouse, who believes Christianity is full of lies.
I like those lies better than your truth. So I will take my chances and
maybe Christ will forgive me for all my cheating and lying.
07 Mar 12
Coming back to the Scripture, it is fascinating to discover what the Scripture says about itself. What the Bible says about the Bible enfluences the high regard Christians have about this book.
For me to believe in it is also to believe what it says about itself not only the wonderful things it says about other matters.
07 Mar 12
Originally posted by jaywillReally? Well, firstly, it would be wise IMO to remember that this 'book' is actually not a single book as such but rather a collection of loosely related 'bookettes'. Secondly, I would always advise one treats data sources sceptically until you are able to independently verify information contained therein. Thirdly, if a data source attempts to self-verify, I would advise you treat such with extreme caution.
Coming back to the Scripture, it is fascinating to discover what the Scripture says about itself. What the Bible says about the Bible enfluences the high regard Christians have about this book.
For me to believe in it is also to believe what it says about itself not only the wonderful things it says about other matters.
That said, I would strongly suggest you don't listen to me. Figure it out for yourself.