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30 Oct 11
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Originally posted by sumydidThank you. I've been here for quite a while. I just rarely feel motivated to jump in the middle of the conversation but I read these threads a lot.
Me too and I'm finding myself intrigued by both your avatar and your name. Glad you kicked the saloon doors in and joined us at the bar.
I'm a rare breed around here. I am a theist but one that both atheists and other theists around here can probably easily agree to disagree with.
30 Oct 11
1 edit
Christianity both attracts and repels. Embrace of the revealed person of the trinity involves a deeply personal choice. The crossroads moments of 'god consciousness' and 'gospel hearing' represent both significant opportunity and responsibility. What's at stake is a matter of life or death. Reject the claims of Christ if you like. Put your trust in some other animate or inanimate entity. Just bear in mind that our individual soul's eternal destinies are riding on our private decisions. Choice is up to you. God's far too much of a gentleman to coerce. Think of life on earth as the supreme mortal station of embarkation. There are two outbound trains. Everybody is called aboard the one for which their ticket is punched. Some of my best friends are hardened unbelievers. I enjoy our temporal candor and rapport... but it tears me up sometimes, late at night, as I reflect on the fact that our days together are finite and limited.
gb
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by UllrRare breed indeed.
Thank you. I've been here for quite a while. I just rarely feel motivated to jump in the middle of the conversation but I read these threads a lot.
I'm a rare breed around here. I am a theist but one that both atheists and other theists around here can probably easily agree to disagree with.
I see you are involved in your self-imposed maximum number of games. I need to brush up vs. the Scotch Game, and I have an opening you haven't seen in a while. Care to start a couple?
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30 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidBring it on! I've got to change my challenge settings first to allow random challenges but I'll do that now.
Rare breed indeed.
I see you are involved in your self-imposed maximum number of games. I need to brush up vs. the Scotch Game, and I have an opening you haven't seen in a while. Care to start a couple?
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYes sir.
Christianity both attracts and repels. Embrace of the revealed person of the trinity involves a deeply personal choice. The crossroads moments of 'god consciousness' and 'gospel hearing' represent both significant opportunity and responsibility. What's at stake is a matter of life or death. Reject the claims of Christ if you like. Put your trust in some ...[text shortened]... e at night, as I reflect on the fact that our days together are finite and limited.
gb
Attracts? Attracts whom, pray tell.
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30 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidI mean no disrespect by suggesting this but I do think that salvation religions tend to attract those that have lost their way, feel powerless, have lost their connection to their community or tribe (if you want to go back in history), are suffering from anomie, etc. I believe this is the story of Christianity's rise from a very small, fringe religion to a global phenomenon. It gave people what they were missing. Namely, a place to belong and salvation from their otherwise frightening and unstable lives. When and where Christianity has encountered groups of people that already have a strong sense of community and cultural ties it has either been mostly rejected or has had to adapt in order to gain acceptance. Ever wonder why Christianity became so Germanicized during it's early and very slow adoption throughout central and northern Europe or why in Japan Christianity has never really gained a large/majority footprint despite a massive and long standing missionary effort?
Yes sir.
Attracts? Attracts whom, pray tell.
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidI have room for games, why don't you try to start something with me, sailor?
Rare breed indeed.
I see you are involved in your self-imposed maximum number of games. I need to brush up vs. the Scotch Game, and I have an opening you haven't seen in a while. Care to start a couple?
Plus I'm rather inexperienced with the Scotch. Sound enticing? 😛
30 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by UllrIt occurs to me to say this, though it falls short of addressing all the points in your entire post.
I mean no disrespect by suggesting this but I do think that salvation religions tend to attract those that have lost their way, feel powerless, have lost their connection to their community or tribe (if you want to go back in history), are suffering from anomie, etc. I believe this is the story of Christianity's rise from a very small, fringe religion to a glo eally gained a large/majority footprint despite a massive and long standing missionary effort?
Christianity--and I mean true Christianity with all the good and all the bad--is actually a very unorthodox, counter-intuitive set of beliefs that most people reject.
It is seen as a very mainstream, user-friendly, easy-to-grasp belief system that a majority of people take in out of convenience; for the beneift of feeling better and establishing a social network.
Far from it. In my meager 9+ years as a Christian, I have seen quite the opposite. Most people keep their distance from me. I don't have any of the old friends I used to have pre-conversion. I am ridiculed for my beliefs--and that's by those who have the nerve to even talk about it--the rest just change the subject or stay away.
Yes, there is a welcoming, loving, warm group of people inside the church building, but that doesn't alleviate the issues we face during the daily grind of life.
But this is not to say Christianity is something to be avoided. I've actually never been happier. I have just had to turn my priorities completely around. Drinking and drugs are no longer a part of my life. And this wasn't even a battle or a spiritual decision. They literally just started to make me feel sick and I just naturally dropped them. Believe me, that's a miracle in and of itself. Many years ago, my family was sure I was an alcoholic and I absotely loved mind-altering drugs. Pot was an everyday thing and seen as medicinal. And on and on, I'm babbling.
I'm only saying that no, Christianity isn't the warm, fuzzy thing so many people think it is from their outside viewpoint. Your whole life turns upside down when you convert to Christianity, but at the same time, you end up in a much better place and I can attest to that.
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by SuzianneYou are not accepting challenges from players with a rating above 1600. Start a couple with me, one white and one black. I'm game, Sis!
I have room for games, why don't you try to start something with me, sailor?
Plus I'm rather inexperienced with the Scotch. Sound enticing? 😛
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by sumydidGoing in Premise: #1) Christianity by any other name in any other language doesn't change a qualitative thing regarding the concept of the possibility of a personal royal family member relationship with the sovereign almighty being of the universe; 2) An objective approach requires focus on the the thing itself (the thingness of the thing)... the very essence of omnicience, omnipotence, omnipresence, justice, righteousness, absolute integrity, impeccability, veracity and immutability; 3) It's tantamount to assininity personified for a drowning human being to reject the outstretched hand of its creator. Tentative Conclusion: Christianity arrests the attention and attracts the interest of individuals who seek the unembellished absolute truth, who may not have even a toddler's grasp of the bathos or depth into which humanity has been intentionally dropped, to resolve the pre-historic angelic conflict.
Yes sir.
Attracts? Attracts whom, pray tell.
gb
30 Oct 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbybut...
[b]Tentative Conclusion: Christianity arrests the attention and attracts the interest of individuals who seek the unembellished absolute truth[/b]
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All of us, no matter how shallow, seek the truth to some degree. Would you agree?
And yet not one of us on our own, seeks the unembellished, absolute truth, i.e. God. Correct?
So I would ask again but if you will allow me, I'll rephrase for clarification.
Whom does the Gospel attract, and whom does it repel?
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30 Oct 11
2 edits
Originally posted by sumydid"It is seen as a very mainstream, user-friendly, easy-to-grasp belief system that a majority of people take in out of convenience; for the beneift of feeling better and establishing a social network."
It occurs to me to say this, though it falls short of addressing all the points in your entire post.
Christianity--and I mean true Christianity with all the good and all the bad--is actually a very unorthodox, counter-intuitive set of beliefs that most people reject.
It is seen as a very mainstream, user-friendly, easy-to-grasp belief system that a maj nity, but at the same time, you end up in a much better place and I can attest to that.
I think it's only mainstream in that it is considered acceptable (I guess provided one doesn't become too fanatic about it). But I agree, it has been my observation (having been raised in a New England Congregational protestant church) that is it very much a social (and business) network. Nothing wrong with that though provided that the social aspect is focused on strenghtening the community and not being intolerant and making social outcasts of those who truly don't deserve it. This is where I think Christianity, as we see it here in modern day USA, often fails.
"Most people keep their distance from me. I don't have any of the old friends I used to have pre-conversion. I am ridiculed for my beliefs--and that's by those who have the nerve to even talk about it--the rest just change the subject or stay away."
Well in fairness to others, they may not have the level of interest you do and therefore really don't want to talk about it. I'm very low key when it comes to discussing my spiritual beliefs. I don't think it needs to be a cornerstone of every other conversation I have. Mostly I just want people to know me as a good, reliable person first and foremost and not as heathen. If someone wants me to talk about my spiritual beliefs, I'm happy to do so but
not with the intent of trying to sway people to my way of thinking because I don't practice a salvation religion and therefore I have no comfort, promises, nor threats to give. One virtue I strive to maintain is that if I tell somebody I am going to do something then I do it even after it becomes inconvenient.
"Yes, there is a welcoming, loving, warm group of people inside the church building, but that doesn't alleviate the issues we face during the daily grind of life."
I believe this is one of the reasons Christianity gained traction in the Roman Empire. People found in Christianity a place where they could find fellowship, kindness, and genuine concern for their personal well being that was otherwise lacking for them in Roman society at the time. However, as the religion migrated north to the Germanic tribes it encountered closer knit communities that had tighter cultural ties to one another and the need was not quite as acute. Thus the tactics of conversion changed to a combination of that of accomodation of doctrine (i.e. Germancization of the religion) and coercion. I mean hasn't anyone else here ever found it odd that on Christmas Eve we start out in church dedicated to the worship of Christ and God with decorations of crucifixes and what not and then we go home to a lighted Christmas Tree, spiked Egg Nog, stockings hung by the fireplace where we leave offerings for an elf? I knew something was off kilter at a very young age. When I become an adult I chose the tree, the egg nog, and the elf over the dude suffering on the cross for my sins. This is because I felt this was a part of my true cultural heritage whereas the other scenario is imported and always just felt unnatural to me.
"But this is not to say Christianity is something to be avoided. I've actually never been happier. I have just had to turn my priorities completely around. Drinking and drugs are no longer a part of my life. And this wasn't even a battle or a spiritual decision. They literally just started to make me feel sick and I just naturally dropped them. Believe me, that's a miracle in and of itself. Many years ago, my family was sure I was an alcoholic and I absotely loved mind-altering drugs. Pot was an everyday thing and seen as medicinal. And on and on, I'm babbling."
In a way you're proving my point. It sounds like you had a lot of instability in your life and, unless I'm reading it wrong, some dissociation from your family. Christianity filled in the gaps. I don't think there is anything wrong with that mind you. Many people are better off today from finding their place in Christianity. Spirituality and community is important and I believe they go hand in hand. If the need is not being fulfilled one way or another then there is a vaccum that must be filled.
"Your whole life turns upside down when you convert to Christianity, but at the same time, you end up in a much better place and I can attest to that."
I think this is great. My only dispute with some Christians here is that there is not only one way to acheive this peace within oneself or spiritual fulfillment if you will. However, that idea is met with scorn and threats by hardcore Christians (and the likes of Dasa) here and elsewhere in the world. On the rare occasions that I do wade into the discussions here on this forum I will stick to my guns that I reject this intolerant and largely ignorant way of thinking. Not that I expect or even ask evangelical Christians to stop being evangelical. I will just continue to disagree with them is all.
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by UllrJapan didn't need christianity, neither did a lot of other countries that were tried to be converted.
I mean no disrespect by suggesting this but I do think that salvation religions tend to attract those that have lost their way, feel powerless, have lost their connection to their community or tribe (if you want to go back in history), are suffering from anomie, etc. I believe this is the story of Christianity's rise from a very small, fringe religion to a glo ...[text shortened]... eally gained a large/majority footprint despite a massive and long standing missionary effort?
I suspect there has been more failure than success with conversion over history.
The Polynesians seemed to have embraced Catholic teachings, do you know of any other countries/regions that have had the same success, (and not at gunpoint).
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30 Oct 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelUganda? Although a great deal of intolerance along with it. I was watching a documentary this week about how not long ago a law was passed in Uganda making homosexuality a capital offense. American evangelicals played a role in this.
Japan didn't need christianity, neither did a lot of other countries that were tried to be converted.
I suspect there has been more failure than success with conversion over history.
The Polynesians seemed to have embraced Catholic teachings, do you know of any other countries/regions that have had the same success, (and not at gunpoint).
30 Oct 11
Originally posted by UllrYour a christian? Cool
"It is seen as a very mainstream, user-friendly, easy-to-grasp belief system that a majority of people take in out of convenience; for the beneift of feeling better and establishing a social network."
I think it's only mainstream in that it is considered acceptable (I guess provided one doesn't become too fanatic about it). But I agree, it has been my obser ...[text shortened]... ng evangelical. I will just continue to disagree with them is all.
You have the same approach to sharing your ideas about spirituality as the Zen monastaries- they only answer your questions if you ask, otherwise they keep to themselves.
Some people,very few indeed, are born story-tellers, the sort of people that can captivate an audience, tell a story,but NOT preach. The audience can take away from the story what they need without getting things jammed down their throats.
There is no subsequent pressure or any hierarchy within such a method of (spiritual) story sharing. Therefore the potential seeker is free to make up their own mind, to fit in the suitable parts from the story to help their own understanding , without any pressure to conform to the status quo.