Something new to think about

@moonbus said
The Jews were expecting some messiah or other, but not necessarily Jesus. The NT gospels referring to the OT 'foretelling' Jesus, were written to give the story precisely that 'spin', by re-interpreting the OT as one long omen pointing to Jesus specifically as the prophesied messiah.

They were specifically expecting a warrior messiah, and Jesus did not fit this bill. The Jesus set to return in the end times does indeed fit the bill.

@bigdogg said
That doesn't quite work.

"Redacted" is mainly blocking out sensitive names or info from a document.

I'll stick with the term I chose. I picked it for a reason.

In any case, "the documents have been tampered with." (H.L. Mencken)

@moonbus said
In any case, "the documents have been tampered with." (H.L. Mencken)

I do not agree (of course), but "retcon" is the perfect word for what BigDogg describes. I understand movies and comics and video games have done this for years. When a character gets added to already existing lore, it's all about the "retcon".

@mchill said
Yes - That's my point. Neither the Jews or the Romans could kill Christianity by dragging the Body of Jesus out of the tomb and showing it to everyone, because the body was gone.

Wasn’t it the Romans who incorporated Christianity and grew it into a empire wide religion?

@moonbus said
An empty tomb proves nothing. Nothing at all. Not that anyone was ever in it, much less that whoever might have been in it left in an unorthodox manner.

I have a reading suggestion for you: “The Jesus Family Tomb.”

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Family-Tomb-Evidence-Discovery/dp/0061205346/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1X3AI9RMNJO5&keywords=the+jesus+family+tomb&qid=1700168486&sp ...[text shortened]... eshua was a common name in the Levant in the first century AD. The author deals with that objection.

The fact He showed Himself after He rose from the dead several times with many infallible proofs is much more evidence than an empty tomb. Those who saw Him died for that confession instead of recanting which is what anyone would do if they were perpetuating a lie, many times dying horrible deaths. Even with the Jewish and Roman authorities trying to crush belief in Jesus Christ they could not, an untruth of that magnitude wouldn't have mattered except were it not for God. Even Paul, who was also trying to destroy the church, became a Christian and wrote more of the New Testament.

@kellyjay said
The fact He showed Himself after He rose from the dead several times with many infallible proofs is much more evidence than an empty tomb.

What "infallible proofs" would they be?

@kellyjay said
Those who saw Him died for that confession instead of recanting

Yep. So the stories go.

@kellyjay said
Those who saw Him died for that confession instead of recanting which is what anyone would do if they were perpetuating a lie, many times dying horrible deaths.

Many Muslim martyrs have died horrible deaths "perpetuating" what you would insist was "a lie".

@kellyjay said
Even with the Jewish and Roman authorities trying to crush belief in Jesus Christ they could not, an untruth of that magnitude wouldn't have mattered except were it not for God.

The popularity and resilience of Christianity ~ and Islam for that matter ~ are not evidence that the claims they make about supernatural beings and phenomena are true.

@kellyjay said
an untruth of that magnitude wouldn't have mattered except were it not for God.

This could be described as "ipse dixit".

@kellyjay said
Even Paul, who was also trying to destroy the church, became a Christian and wrote more of the New Testament.

I suspect Paul was a Roman operative. Two giveaways, and there are many ~ it's a very interesting topic, well worth looking into ~ are things like Matthew 6:34 [Christianity was much more docile than militant Judaism] and more especially the whole Romans 13 thing.