Sonship, Secondson, KellyJay & other OSAS Christians.

@Rajk999

There is no expression called "relationship with Christ".

Now you are REFINING what you wrote. This is not repetition. This is refining into more careful words what you mean.

But you're still wrong. Christ is thoroughly, completely, and in every way about a relationship intimate with God Whom Christ is.

I repeat what Jesus and the Apostles preach.

Both Jesus AND His apostles preached an intimate, subjective, personal RELATIONSHIP with Christ.

I never use expressions not found in the bible.

I understand your desire to refine, re-state your concept.
But you're wrong that in every way, a relationship is taught.
Saying "relationship with Christ" is not written in the text doesn't make your teaching more credible.

You and your false doctrines and teachings is the result of changing little words and the meaning. Its a dangerous practice.

What words did I change?

How can a man abide in Christ as the true vine and He abide in him and there be no relationship with Christ ?

Paul told the Corinthians to TEST THEMSELVES to see if they were in the proper faith. They were told to realize that the orthodox faith - Jesus Christ was living in them.

"Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved? (2 Cor. 13:5)

They had a relationship with Christ [without the word relationship being written] because to pass the test they had to realize that Jesus Christ was in them.

And you come along babbling like a fool that there is no expression or no "relationship with Christ" in the Bible.

There is practically nothing BUT.

And Paul says to the Corinthian Christians -

"Since you seek a proof of the Christ who is speaking in me, who is not weak unto you but is powerful in you." (v.3)

Christ is speaking in Paul.
Christ is not weak in Paul but powerful.
Christ is also powerful in the Corinthian believers listening TO Paul.

Christ is powerful in Paul unto the Christians.
Christ is powerful in Paul's audience the Christians in Corinth.

And you come along babbling like a phony expert that there is no expression and no relationship with Christ in the Bible.

The serpent's venomous fangs of anti-Christ teaching are sunk so deep into your head as to be pitiful.

@rajk999 said
"I never knew you" .. is for the ones calling Lord Lord, the faith people, the miracle workers and Holy Spirit types .. like you.

If you say that your relationship with Jesus [an expression not found in the bible], is about following His commandments then I would agree. John says that here

[i]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
...[text shortened]... If you follow the commandments, THEN you know Christ.
Then you have a relationship with Christ.[/b]

I never knew you is about those He doesn’t know. Do you know Him, or is your heart far from Him? Jesus’ sheep know His voice, and they His. You alone trying to be good enough, or have you been redeemed by His blood?

@Indonesia-Phil

I'm just glad I'm not a sheep.

You may say that you do not want to be one of the sheep of Christ.
But don't think that means you are not a follower.

You are still a follower. And the destiny of the one leading you will be also your co-destiny. That is to perish under the wrath of eternal judgment.

You will go with your leader who also loaths to be a follower of the Good Shepherd - the Son of God.

You may think that you don't want to be a fool for Christ.
But then you cannot avoid being someone else's BIG fool.

@sonship said
@Indonesia-Phil

I'm just glad I'm not a sheep.

You may say that you do not want to be one of the sheep of Christ.
But don't think that means you are not a follower.

You are still a follower. And the destiny of the one leading you will be also your co-destiny. That is to perish under the wrath of eternal judgment.

You will go with your leader ...[text shortened]... on't want to be a fool for Christ.
But then you cannot avoid being someone else's BIG fool.

I know many (many) wonderful people who are not followers of your God. To assign them all to the devil is the glaring weakness in your particular brand of the divine.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I know many (many) wonderful people who are not followers of your God. To assign them all to the devil is the glaring weakness in your particular brand of the divine.

Many indeed. God has poured out His Spirit upon all flesh. Mankind knows good and evil. Those who practice / preach evil are of the Devil. Those who practice righteousness are of God, and will be rewarded in due time.

Interesting that none of the persons named in the thread title are able to tell others about these teachings of Christ in the opening post. These words of Christ run contrary to their Satanic doctrine.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I know many (many) wonderful people who are not followers of your God. To assign them all to the devil is the glaring weakness in your particular brand of the divine.

Justification is according to God's standard of righteousness, not ours.

I know many good people too who are not followers of Christ.
And I know some who profess Christ and bring disrepute to the Name.

Justification before God is according to the standard of wonderfulness of God. It is not according to my standard or your standard or someone nicer then both of us. To be justified before God it is according to the standard God sets.

The final word is not "Who is justified before me?" said by the fallen sinner.
The final word is God declaring who is justified before God, the Most High, the ground of being, the Righteous One above whom there exists no greater.

He has provided a way we all can be justified before God.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

There is no expression called "relationship with Christ".

Now you are REFINING what you wrote. This is not repetition. This is refining into more careful words what you mean.

But you're still wrong. Christ is thoroughly, completely, and in every way about a relationship intimate with God Whom Christ is.

[quote]
I repeat what Jesus a ...[text shortened]... serpent's venomous fangs of anti-Christ teaching are sunk so deep into your head as to be pitiful.

The problem with your word twisting and manipulating comes from changing the original meaning and intention of the bible. This is the work of Satan.

The essence of the bible teaching is that a mans relationship with Christ stems from following the commandments. John said you know Christ and Christ knows you, when you follow the commandments.

The church teaching tells Christians that following the commandments is not important and that what is critical is having a personal relationship with Christ. I guess they imagine that they are speaking to God. but in reality if they are not following the commandments they have nothing but a delusion.

The Good Samaritan had a relationship with Christ and God.
The priest and Levite did not.

@rajk999 said
The problem with your word twisting and manipulating comes from changing the original meaning and intention of the bible. This is the work of Satan.

The essence of the bible teaching is that a mans relationship with Christ stems from following the commandments. John said you know Christ and Christ knows you, when you follow the commandments.

The church teaching tells ...[text shortened]... usion.

The Good Samaritan had a relationship with Christ and God.
The priest and Levite did not.

Show that with just scripture is true, you are making things up, again!

@rajk999 said
Its not that nobody could grasp it. It is that you cannot show where Jesus preached your doctrine. What makes it worse for you is that you are being shown where Jesus says the opposite of what you say.

With that you win the "most biblically shallow forum poster" award.

Jesus said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

But YOU want to make the burden of the yoke of the law heavy by insisting that one do "good works" for salvation, when the law was never intended to provide salvation.

Salvation cannot be earned by doing good works. Eternal life is a free gift earned for man by Jesus on the cross.

It's Bible doctrine.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

By FAITH we received Christ Jesus the Lord, and it is by faith that one walks the walk, NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but according to the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus", Romans 8.

Galatians 2:20,21
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Too bad you're not "born again", because then maybe you'd understand what the scriptures are teaching.

@secondson said
But YOU want to make the burden of the yoke of the law heavy by insisting that one do "good works" for salvation, when the law was never intended to provide salvation.

Do you believe that Christians can get "salvation" solely because of their faith even if they don't do good works?

@secondson said
By FAITH we received Christ Jesus the Lord, and it is by faith that one walks the walk, NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but according to the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus", Romans 8.

Galatians 2:20,21
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of ...[text shortened]... o bad you're not "born again", because then maybe you'd understand what the scriptures are teaching.

What happens to a Christian who has faith but does not "walk the walk"?

@secondson said
Salvation cannot be earned by doing good works. Eternal life is a free gift earned for man by Jesus on the cross.

Does Jesus' crucifixion create any obligation for those who follow Him to obey his commandments and do good works, or does His crucifixion mean there is no obligation for those who follow Him - and who seek "salvation" - to obey his commandments and do good works?

@secondson said
With that you win the "most biblically shallow forum poster" award.

Jesus said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

But YOU want to make the burden of the yok ...[text shortened]... o bad you're not "born again", because then maybe you'd understand what the scriptures are teaching.

Doing good works is s burden for you. I thought so.
You are a Priest / Levite. / Goat
You are not a Good Samaritan / Sheep.

OK. Secondson cleatly making the statement finally.
Sonship ignoring the opening post
KellyJay beating around the bush

@fmf said
Do you believe that Christians can get "salvation" solely because of their faith even if they don't do good works?

That's what I've been trying to tell Rajk.

Here's why: salvation comes from God. Logically, a flawed sinner cannot do anything good enough to save himself. As it is stated in Romans 5, simplified, #1 "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." #2 "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." #3 "when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

Strictly through faith in what Christ did on the cross, on our behalf, do we receive salvation (eternal life).

"Good works" follow, and then, in the afterlife, one is rewarded, or suffers loss of reward, depending on faithfulness with regards to that "which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

@fmf said
What happens to a Christian who has faith but does not "walk the walk"?

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.