Sonship, Secondson, KellyJay & other OSAS Christians.

@whodey said
The #1 commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart. We are also to pray to him and call the God of the Universe Abba, or Father. No other religion has it's adherents refer to God in such an intimate way. We are also to seek God with all our heart

Yet you don't see relationship here.

Fascinating.

IF you focus you will see that my issue is with how the church interprets this thing they call "personal relationship with Christ". They interpret this to mean that -
- they speak to Christ as if he were their friend.
- this is critical for eternal life.
- if you have a personal relationship with Christ there is no need to follow the commandments.

All of this is unbiblical, childish nonsense.

@secondson said
I think the word "obligation" infers a responsibility beyond our capacity relative to doing good works for salvation.

"Infer" whatever you want. Does the crucifixion of Jesus mean there is no obligation for those who follow Him - and who seek "salvation" - to obey his commandments and do good works?

Yes or no?

@secondson said
We receive God's salvation through faith, not by earning it with works.

So, you believe that the Bible says that good works and obeying Jesus' commandments are not necessary and that only faith is needed? Just to be clear. The crucifixion made the obligation to live a good life and do good things unnecessary, is that right?

@rajk999 said
You can talk the same foolishness over and over and over, all you like. Your nonsense explanations are not in the bible.

You keep missing the point. Those who do good works have Jesus in them and have God in them. This fact is demonstrated by their actions and their works. You are professing mouth worhsip again, which is the doctrine that says profess belief and only then can one do good works. Jesus says no such thing.

No one says profess belief and only then can one do good works outside of you.

@rajk999 said
So when did God give you the ability to know who has the Holy Spirit and who does not?

Jesus said, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Your fruit is bitter hatred and disdain, and is evidenced by what comes out of your mouth in these threads.

By your own admission you hate, which is the same as murder. You are in disobedience to the law and the commandments of Jesus and are not doing "good works", therefore it is highly doubtful you are born again and have the Spirit of Christ in you.

@fmf said
"Infer" whatever you want. Does the crucifixion of Jesus mean there is no obligation for those who follow Him - and who seek "salvation" - to obey his commandments and do good works?

Yes or no?

I already told you. It is not because of obligation that a Christian obeys, but out of gratitude and for love's sake that the believer follows Christ in the path of righteousness.

If you can't understand that, I understand why.

@fmf said
So, you believe that the Bible says that good works and obeying Jesus' commandments are not necessary and that only faith is needed? Just to be clear. The crucifixion made the obligation to live a good life and do good things unnecessary, is that right?

I think that's as obtuse as I've ever heard you before.

You appear to be as confused about salvation and how it's obtained as Rajk is.

Only one thing is required to receive eternal life, and that is by faith, and faith alone.

To believe, and conduct oneself in an effort to have salvation, by doing "good works" or "keeping the law", is adding to what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf in order to procure salvation for man.

It is heresy. It is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

@secondson said
Jesus said, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Your fruit is bitter hatred and disdain, and is evidenced by what comes out of your mouth in these threads.

By your own admission you hate, which is the same as murder. You are in disobedience to the law and the commandments of Jesus and are not doing "good works", therefore it is highly doubtful you are born again and have the Spirit of Christ in you.

Let me educate you, fool, Here is what Jesus said:

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: (Matthew 7:20-26 KJV)

Jesus said you can distinguish between false prophets and His true followers by their fruits.
False prophets :
- Call Lord Lord
- Profess the Name of Jesus Christ and that they have the Holy Spirit
- Claim to do wonderful works or casting out devils etc
- They do not follow the commandments

True followers:
- Hears the commandments and doeth them.

None of you church jokers can repeat the commandments of Christ and preach about following the commandments of Christ to anyone. Not you, not sonship, not KJ .. none of you church people ever tell anyone to follow the commandments of Christ.

Jesus said you are a foolish man and your house will one day fall.

@secondson said
I already told you. It is not because of obligation that a Christian obeys, but out of gratitude and for love's sake that the believer follows Christ in the path of righteousness.

If you can't understand that, I understand why.

How can you claim that you obey Christ, if you cannot even once, tell people about the teachings of Christ and following the commandments ?

@secondson said
I think that's as obtuse as I've ever heard you before.

You appear to be as confused about salvation and how it's obtained as Rajk is.

Only one thing is required to receive eternal life, and that is by faith, and faith alone.

To believe, and conduct oneself in an effort to have salvation, by doing "good works" or "keeping the law", is adding to what Jesus did on th ...[text shortened]... der to procure salvation for man.

It is heresy. It is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Nowhere in the bible did anyone ever say this - Only one thing is required to receive eternal life, and that is by faith, and faith alone.. This is your church doctrine.

Faith without works is dead. Do you think dead faith can get eternal life?
There is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God unless one lives righteously.

You are one of the devils angels spreading your lies, and fooling the gullible.

@rajk999 said
Nowhere in the bible did anyone ever say this - Only one thing is required to receive eternal life, and that is by faith, and faith alone.. This is your church doctrine.

Faith without works is dead. Do you think dead faith can get eternal life?
There is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God unless one lives righteously.

You are one of the devils angels spreading your lies, and fooling the gullible.

And you have the nerve to call me a fool!

Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 13:14 was written for you and your kind.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Take heed Rajk to what Jesus said, "...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

@secondson said
And you have the nerve to call me a fool!

Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 13:14 was written for you and your kind.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye ...[text shortened]... d Rajk to what Jesus said, "...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Take heed fool to what Jesus said about those who do not follow His commandments. They are cast out of the Kingdom of God.

I am calling the devil's angels fools. You are not a follower of Christ.

@rajk999 said
You are one of the devils angels spreading your lies, and fooling the gullible.

You are obviously suffering from paranoid delusions, as well as a heart filled with darkness and hatred.

If you can't handle posting in a debate forum where others will disagree with you without you resorting to name calling and hate speech, then you may just as well stay cloistered in your Humpty Dumpty church that no one has ever heard of with your nobody friends.

@secondson said
You are obviously suffering from paranoid delusions, as well as a heart filled with darkness and hatred.

If you can't handle posting in a debate forum where others will disagree with you without you resorting to name calling and hate speech, then you may just as well stay cloistered in your Humpty Dumpty church that no one has ever heard of with your nobody friends.

Tell that to yourself. You are the one that started the name-calling. In every thread where I post you start calling me names and using derogatory terms to refer to me and what I say. You are a blooming liar and a church Christian. That says it all. The darkness and hatred comes from all you church people who like to boast of your Holy Spirit and elevate yourself that you have eternal life, and condemn all others to eternal torment. Your doctrine is nonsense and you are the one that refuses to engage in proper discussion because you know that if you read the whole of the teachings of Paul your nonsense about saved by faith alone is a lie. Your doctrine is Satanic.. You cannot even repeat the teachings of Christ. Your demonic soul hates good works and righteousness.

In Page 2 of this thread, you started the insults.

You parrot the Bible, yet you understand little of its meaning. If you understood the scriptures you'd know that "doing good works" never got anyone saved. Not in the Old Testament or the new.
And while you're at it why don't you lighten up on the vitriol, hate and disdain? You're making yourself look like a horses asshat.

Show me what I said in this thread that caused you to insult me. Not that I care. Trust me my skin is thick, and your insults go over my head, But dont behave as if you are a saint. You are a liar and a hypocrite that cannot use the bible to support your nonsense doctrine.

Even after your insults on page 2, I did not respond with insults. I simply asked you to focus on the topic. You church people - you, sonship, and Kellyjay are disgusting.

@rajk999 said
Take heed fool to what Jesus said about those who do not follow His commandments. They are cast out of the Kingdom of God.

I am calling the devil's angels fools. You are not a follower of Christ.

You again are standing in judgment of who is and isn't a follower of Jesus, while you are doing things Jesus told us not to do with warnings of Hell.