29 Sep 11
Originally posted by sumydidMy fellow Texan. We do it because Jesus told us to. Not everyone on this earth knows about Jehovah and in fact most don't. We pray to have help in trying to teach others about our God.
I wasn't using a straw man. I think it's more (as is now evident) a case of me not understand what you were claiming.
I still don't understand it.
You seem to now be arguing that Jesus told us to pray that the Father's name be sanctified, and that you don't understand why everyone is confused by your claim.
Well, it's because that claim IS confusin ...[text shortened]... anctify it. There. Done. Set apart as Holy. We've already done that, why pray for it?
Where abouts in the state do you live? I'm from Galveston.
29 Sep 11
1 edit
Hi brother. Well-met. I'm a stone's throw from the DFW airport. I'd be terrified to live in Galveston. At least during hurricane season. It's like a crap shoot for you every year, isn't it? 🙂
I'm not originally from Texas. I transferred here 4 years ago. I'm a Georgia boy. Born in Tennessee but raised in Georgia. Great place. Texas is awesome as well.
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by sumydidHi and nice to meet you. It usually averages out they'll get a bad one about every 20 years or so but the 19 in between are great. Oh well, every where you live can get you from time to time I guess...
Hi brother. Well-met. I'm a stone's throw from the DFW airport. I'd be terrified to live in Galveston. At least during hurricane season. It's like a crap shoot for you every year, isn't it? 🙂
I'm not originally from Texas. I transferred here 4 years ago. I'm a Georgia boy. Born in Tennessee but raised in Georgia. Great place. Texas is awesome as well.
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by galveston75So is Galveston where all those awesome grapefruits are grown?
Hi and nice to meet you. It usually averages out they'll get a bad one about every 20 years or so but the 19 in between are great. Oh well, every where you live can get you from time to time I guess...
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by galveston75No one needs to know the name "Jehovah". (Phillipians 2:9-11)
My fellow Texan. We do it because Jesus told us to. Not everyone on this earth knows about Jehovah and in fact most don't. We pray to have help in trying to teach others about our God.
Where abouts in the state do you live? I'm from Galveston.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is
above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those
in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every
tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of
Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead,
by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was
rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is
there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given
among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:10-12)
HALLELUYAH
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by RJHindsLook, the term is not over, you have been asked to show why it is over, you cannot
I said a plainly as I could that neither "of" or "over" is in the text. But the
Greek word for "all" is in the text. Some translaters translate it as "of all"
and others "over all". It apparently is up to the translators. But I really
think you are being dishonest here.
P.S. Actually the Greek word is in the text in relation to "image of God and
...[text shortened]... ity of God" but not there in relation to the "firstborn (of)(over) all
creation."
produce anything because over is not in the text. Do you understand that, over nor
any equivalent can be found in the Greek text. Pases is never translated as over
anywhere, why? because it does not mean over. Do you understand? Translators
have interpolated the term over, to support the idea that Christ is distinct from
creation, again it is not found in the Greek text. You have been asked to
demonstrate
1.why you are saying the greek genetive 'pases', translates as over
so far you have produced nothing, one empty opinion after another, If you had the
integrity to state, well ok, the text does not read 'over all creation', its simply
religious bias, to support a preconceived idea with regard to the nature of Christ
and an attempt on the translators part to make Christ 'appear ', distinct from
creation, then that would be fine. But to persistently and ignorantly try to assert
that over is in the text is simply wrong. why, because it ignores the Greek construct,
that is why.
Pases uses the genetive form and is used in relation to first-born and creation. For
example in English we say, 'the mother of the bride', in Greek we have, 'the first
born of the creation', that is not distinct from it, but a part of it.
Why have your translators ignored, firstly the meaning of the term pases and
secondly the Greek construct? will i save you the bother?
BECAUSE THEY WISH TO SUPPORT A RELIGIOUS BIAS NOT FOUND IN THE GREEK
TEXT.
there is no way, that the genitive form pases can been translated as over, for it
does not mean over and secondly the Greek construct demonstrates that it cannot
mean over.
you have two options, you can try to demonstrate any other instance where pases
means over, or why the Greek construct should be ignored in this instance, or, you
can fess up and admit, that yes indeed, the translators have ignored both the
meaning of the term and the Greek construct and simply wish to make it appear as
if Christ is distinct from creation rather than a part of it, even though the text
demonstrates otherwise.
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by RJHindsNo one needs to know the name "Jehovah"
No one needs to know the name "Jehovah". (Phillipians 2:9-11)
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is
above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those
in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every
tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory o ...[text shortened]... r name under heaven given
among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:10-12)
HALLELUYAH
Did Jesus not make the name of his Father known?
(John 10:25) . . .The works that I am doing in the name of my Father, these
bear witness about me. . .
(John 12:27-28) . . .Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save me
out of this hour. Nevertheless, this is why I have come to this hour. Father,
glorify your name. . .
(John 17:6) . . .“I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me
out of the world. . .
It is of course not surprising that a nominal Christian would ignore the example of
the Christ and state something completely contrary to the example of Jesus
himself. Galvos righjt, you people need to study your Bibles, apparently you've
never heard of these things.
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by galveston75He must know that Galveston is by the Gulf of Mexico, because he said
No not much grown there. I think you might be thinking of West Texas out around Pecos? I'll have to check that out...
you have to worry about the hurricanes. I think he is referring to a
different type of grapefruit, if you get my drift.
29 Sep 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, He said He came in His Father's Name, but you are professing
No one needs to know the name "Jehovah"
Did Jesus not make the name of his Father known?
(John 10:25) . . .The works that I am doing [b]in the name of my Father, these
bear witness about me. . .
(John 12:27-28) . . .Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save me
out of this hour. Nevertheless, this is why I have come ...[text shortened]... ighjt, you people need to study your Bibles, apparently you've
never heard of these things.[/b]
the made up name "Jehovah", which is not the Father's name. He
did not come in the name of "Jehovah".
29 Sep 11
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am saying that some Greek language scholars translate the Greek
Look, the term is not over, you have been asked to show why it is over, you cannot
produce anything because over is not in the text. Do you understand that, over nor
any equivalent can be found in the Greek text. Pases is never translated as over
anywhere, why? because it does not mean over. Do you understand? Translators
have interpolat from creation rather than a part of it, even though the text
demonstrates otherwise.
word "pases" as "over all" in some cases because neither "of" or "over"
is in the text connected to the Greek word "pases". The Greek work
for "all" is "pas" and "pases" can be translated "over all" if the text
calls for it.
P.S. The Greek word τοῦ in the text is "of the" in English, but it refers
to God.
29 Sep 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsApparently this site will not print the Greek letters. But I was referring to
I am saying that some Greek language scholars translate the Greek
word "pases" as "over all" in some cases because neither "of" or "over"
is in the text connected to the Greek word "pases". The Greek work
for "all" is "pas" and "pases" can be translated "over all" if the text
calls for it.
P.S. The Greek word τοῦ in the text is "of the" in English, but it refers
to God.
the Greek word that is something like "tou" which means "of the" in English.
The "tou" is between "image" and "God" and between "God" and "invisible".
So it says literally "image of the God of the invisible" but in English we do
not say "of the God" so it becomes "image of the invisible God". Notice
there is no "tou" between "firstborn" and "creation". This is what I mean.
P.S. The Greek word "pas"
Parts of Speech: Adjective
Definition:
individually each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
collectively some of all types
29 Sep 11
4 edits
Originally posted by galveston75
[b]This is really hard for you guys isn't it? Well it's not. Really, I'm not kidding!!!
But lets see if we can make this as easy as possible.
1) Jehovah is God Almighty and has always been existing as spoken of by the Bible.
2) No other Gods existed besides Jehovah because no one else existed besides him before he created Jesus.
3) Jehovah made is. And Jesus was never referred to as a god in the Bible before he assended back to heaven.
This is really hard for you guys isn't it? Well it's not. Really, I'm not kidding!!![/b]
But lets see if we can make this as easy as possible.
To receive Christ is a matter of revelation. I do not trust in how intelligent you or I am, or how "simple" you think you can make Watchtower theology to me.
1) Jehovah is God Almighty and has always been existing as spoken of by the Bible.
This point does not impress me. Jesus Christ, Who comes with the clouds in His second coming, tells us He is "the Almighty".
"Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the land will mourn over Him, Yes, amen.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:7,8)
I believe that we are to understand the Second Coming of Christ to be the coming of the Almighty. That is why verse 8 about the Almighty coming immediately follows verse 7 about Christ coming on the clouds.
All of the tribes of the Holy Land will see Christ coming on the clouds of His glory. And Revelation 1:7 is definitely a reference to Zechariah 12:10 about Jewish tribes mourning over the coming of Jehovah God Whom their have pierced (in crucifixion), and weeping over Him in His rescue of Jerusalem:
"In that day JEHOVAH will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem .... And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of supplications;
and they shall look upon Me [JEHOVAH], whom they have pierced; and they will wail over HIM with wailing as for an only son and cry bitterly over Him with bitter crying as for a firstborn son." (See Zech. 12:8-10)
Jehovah God incarnated as Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Outside of the city Jerusalem Jesus was PIERCED through the hands and feet when He was turned over to the Romans at the cries of the Jews that He be CRUCIFIED.
In His second coming, after so many centries, the helpless Jews surrounded by enemies and the armies of Antichrist, when all seems hopeless, will see Christ come again over the Holy Land. They will realize that this One is their Messiah and their God - the God whom they pierced on His cross of redemption:
" ... and they will look upon Me, whom they have pierced, and they will wail over Him ... as for an only son .... as for a firstborn son."
Revelation 1:7 is definitely a reference to Zechariah's prophecy in Zech. 12:10 about the wailing over the pierced and coming Jehovah God to defend Jerusalem. It is no wonder that Jehovah the Almighty, speaks immediately after Revelation 1:7 declaring strongly that HE, "the Almighty" is that One coming on the clouds of heaven.
This is Jesus Christ as Jehovah incarnate declaring that He, the Son of God, is the Almighty - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:8)
Jesus is Jehovah the Almighty God become a man.
Again, the Alpha and the Omega, God incarnated, tells us that He comes quickly in chapter 22:
"Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (Rev. 22:12,13)
And BOTH Christ and the Apostle John set final seal and confirmation to this coming of the Almighty as Christ - " He who testifies these things says, Yes, I come quickly. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" (Rev. 22:20).
Christ says He is the First and the Last in Revelation 1:17. And Christ says He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last in Revelation 22:13.
2) No other Gods existed besides Jehovah because no one else existed besides him before he created Jesus.
I do not have time to type all that I would like to right now. But the Isaiah passage said no other Gods formed either before or after Him.
So your teaching that Jesus is another god formed after Jehovah also contradicts Isaiah 43:10.
" ... Before Me there was no God formed, NEITHER will there be any after Me. I, even I, am Jehovah."
You have no case.
That is all I have time to write right now.