subjective science

Originally posted by @wolfgang59
No architect or landscape gardener designed London!

No one here has claimed that one architect or one landscape gardener designed London.

If the statement "No architect or landscape gardener designed London" was not intended as a strawman, then your point appears to be that if more than one designer was involved it cannot be said that London was designed.

Is this your position, or did I misunderstand your statement?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Where doesn't it?

Where does it?

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
Where does it?

Due to mutation, organisms undergo random changes no?

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
Where in the theory of evolution do you think "random chance" comes into play?

Mutations are either specific for cause or random, wouldn't you agree? If random than they will occur up and down DNA so any possible positive change in one generation, could be taken out with mutations in future generations, because random doesn't have any agenda.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Due to mutation, organisms undergo random changes no?

No. Due to mutations in DNA, the phenotype can be affected. The theory does not rely on these mutations being "random," just that they occur.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
No. Due to mutations in DNA, the phenotype can be affected. The theory does not rely on these mutations being "random," just that they occur.

So if they don't occur randomly, what is the intelligent mechanism that drives the mutations?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So if they don't occur randomly, what is the intelligent mechanism that drives the mutations?

Is everything that does not necessarily occur in a random fashion necessarily driven by an "intelligent mechanism"? I don't follow why this should be the case.

For biological evolution to occur, it is necessary that mutations in DNA occur. It is not necessary that these mutations are "random."

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
Is everything that does not necessarily occur in a random fashion necessarily driven by an "intelligent mechanism"? I don't follow why this should be the case.

For biological evolution to occur, it is necessary that mutations in DNA occur. It is not necessary that these mutations are "random."

Would you care to explain a process that is neither random nor driven by an 'intelligent mechanism' that 'improves' things?

And would you also care to explain exactly what you mean by 'biological evolution' so as to avoid confusion.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Would you care to explain a process that is neither random nor driven by an 'intelligent mechanism' that 'improves' things?

And would you also care to explain exactly what you mean by 'biological evolution' so as to avoid confusion.

An example of a non-random process not requiring intelligent intervention would be the placement of a rock somewhere. One might find said rock in (almost) exactly the same place the next day, in a rather predictable fashion, seemingly without the intervention of supernatural deities.

"Biological evolution" is evolution as applied to biology. Evolution occurs in other situations as well. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_(disambiguation)

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
An example of a non-random process not requiring intelligent intervention would be the placement of a rock somewhere. One might find said rock in (almost) exactly the same place the next day, in a rather predictable fashion, seemingly without the intervention of supernatural deities.

"Biological evolution" is evolution as applied to biology. Evoluti ...[text shortened]... curs in other situations as well. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_(disambiguation)

The placement of a rock somewhere by what? Your imagination? Or is it wishful thinking?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
The placement of a rock somewhere by what? Your imagination?

Whatever the reason for the rock's placement, it's non-movement does not appear to require divine intervention.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
Whatever the reason for the rock's placement, it's non-movement does not appear to require divine intervention.

Wishful thinking it is then.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
Whatever the reason for the rock's placement, it's non-movement does not appear to require divine intervention.

Is this an actual process that you can reference or is it one that you imagine?

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
An example of a non-random process not requiring intelligent intervention would be the placement of a rock somewhere. One might find said rock in (almost) exactly the same place the next day, in a rather predictable fashion, seemingly without the intervention of supernatural deities.

"Biological evolution" is evolution as applied to biology. Evoluti ...[text shortened]... curs in other situations as well. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_(disambiguation)

Rocks can be found in a million different places and random placement may or not be the cause. Now if you run across some rocks in a formation that spells "Welcome to Hoopeston" do think that placement is random? So all of the information within DNA, you think randomness is the cause there, or something more than rock placement is going on?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Is this an actual process that you can reference or is it one that you imagine?

A rock lying somewhere is both an actual process I can reference as well as one I can imagine. Do you have trouble with the concept of rocks lying somewhere?