The apologetics game!

Originally posted by lemon lime
Why are you even bringing this up? It has nothing to do with anything that any of us have been talking about here. Do you delight in reminding people of their past indiscretions and mistakes? It certainly seems (appears) that way to me.

He implicitly uses his artificially inflated chess rating to justify his own intelligence, and bring into question the intelligence of others.

Therefore, his past indiscretions are very relevant today.

Originally posted by lemon lime
What are you going on about? The Bible is a book. But you keep saying you believed the Bible was evidence... evidence of God, or as you put it "their God figure".

I was an atheist at one time, so I have no problem recognizing how their spiel goes... how they form their arguments and what particular phrases and choice of words they use. So here you are ...[text shortened]... ter another... so I'll say goodnight to you now, and you can post your last word on this matter.

Heard the line "I used to be an atheist" coming from fundamentalist Christians so many times it has ceased being funny. The $hit that was written in the Bible, especially the old testament, could never become credible for those who had one seen it for what it really is unless one had suffered a serious head injury.

You were not an atheist ;]

Originally posted by lemon lime
What are you going on about? The Bible is a book. But you keep saying you believed the Bible was evidence... evidence of God, or as you put it "their God figure"....

Sorry to butt in but isn't what he said; FMF said he "lost confidence in the Bible as evidence to support the claims that Christians make about their God figure and about Jesus Christ."

Besides, as a Christian yourself, do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I was an atheist at one time, so I have no problem recognizing how their spiel goes... how they form their arguments and what particular phrases and choice of words they use.

You were never a true atheist.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You were never a true atheist.

Like never being a true Scotsman?

😉

Originally posted by divegeester
Sorry to butt in but isn't what he said; FMF said he "lost confidence in the Bible as evidence to support the claims that Christians make about their God figure and about Jesus Christ."

Besides, as a Christian yourself, do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?

...do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?

No, I don't. I didn't accept that before I believed in God and I still don't accept it. You may think I'm splitting hairs as to why this is, but let me first turn that question around and ask you a similar question:

Do you believe a textbook on any subject you might happen to pick up and read is evidence of any claim you might find expressed in that textbook?


Since when is a claim (any claim) evidence of the claim itself? How can words in a book be evidence of anything other than being evidence of a book containing words? The problem I have with many (if not most) of the questions asked of me by atheists agnostics or theists [define 'theist'] are the flaws I find in the questions themselves.

Do you believe the Bible is supposed to be evidence of what the Bible claims, or are you trying to tell me I'm supposed to view the Bible itself as evidence of what the Bible says?

Do you really not see the flaw in your question, or are you perhaps presuming something you would not presume when looking at any other topic? Think about it... is a textbook on physics proof or evidence of what you read in that textbook? Of course not, so why are you posing that sort of question for me to answer? I didn't need to throw logic and reason out the window to believe as I do, but for some reason you guys will consistently ignore reason and logic when formulating questions for Christians to answer.

So don't expect me to answer dumb questions that wouldn't fly anywhere else and on any other topic. The Bible is a book. A book is not a supernatural object. The Bible is not God. A book (any book) cannot be evidence of whatever claim is found in that book. Seriously dude, just how hard can this concept be for you or your cohorts to understand?

Look up and study the word evidence... take a little time out of your busy day and put some effort into learning what that word actually means.

Originally posted by Agerg
Heard the line "I used to be an atheist" coming from fundamentalist Christians so many times it has ceased being funny. The $hit that was written in the Bible, especially the old testament, could never become credible for those who had one seen it for what it really is unless one had suffered a serious head injury.

You were not an atheist ;]

That's how liars usually view the world in general... everyone else is a liar unless they happen agree with them. There's not much I can say to you about that because most of us are the authors and adherents of our own particular habits.

I'm assuming anyone here is telling me the truth unless I start seeing evidence to the contrary... and even then, such as with FMF, I'm still willing to extend benefit of the doubt. For instance, I still don't know if FMF is being sincere, or if he's yanking my chain and simply entertaining himself by jerking Christians around... so from my point of view the jury is still out on that, but not for very much longer.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You were never a true atheist.

LOL

You are right about that, I was not a true believer. I was willing to question my faith in atheism.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]...do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?

No, I don't. I didn't accept that before I believed in God and I still don't accept it. You may think I'm splitting hairs as to why this is, but let me first turn that question around and ask you a similar question:

Do you b ...[text shortened]... ittle time out of your busy day and put some effort into learning what that word actually means.[/b]

You seem to be angry and flailing around for some reason; there's no need. I just corrected your misrepresentation of what FMF posted.

Originally posted by divegeester
You seem to be angry and flailing around for some reason; there's no need. I just corrected your misrepresentation of what FMF posted.

Really? I thought I was simply answering your question. I'll go back and read again to see what I missed... 🙄


Edit: Nope, I didn't miss anything. You made a statement regarding FMFs position as to the Bible being evidence and then asked me a direct question based on that statement:

Sorry to butt in but isn't what he said; FMF said he "lost confidence in the Bible as evidence to support the claims that Christians make about their God figure and about Jesus Christ."

Besides, as a Christian yourself, do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?

It all seems rather straightforward to me. I am disagreeing with both of you, but are you perhaps somehow equating "disagreement" with "misrepresentation"? And as I recall, I did answer the question you asked of me, so is there something in my answer you didn't like or disagree with?

Originally posted by lemon lime
That's how liars usually view the world in general... everyone else is a liar unless they happen agree with them. There's not much I can say to you about that because most of us are the authors and adherents of our own particular habits.

I'm assuming anyone here is telling me the truth unless I start seeing evidence to the contrary... and even then, su ...[text shortened]... around... so from my point of view the jury is still out on that, but not for very much longer.

Well since you're not going out of your way to conceal your implication that I am a liar lemon lime, perhaps you would like explain this one.

Well go on, chop chop!

Originally posted by lemon lime
Oh come on, DeepThought, maybe it's time for you to start living up to your name.

Your complaint is a common error, assuming the people who wrote the books of the Old Testament were following the exact same speech and thought patterns we are familiar with today.

The same problem always crops up with any phrase that begins with the word 'today ...[text shortened]... e textbook or dime store novel, or expect for it to resemble [b]any modern style of writing.[/b]

That's a better answer than the one RJ gave. But it requires a non-literal reading of the Bible text. The version of the Bible I was quoting (NIV) is a modern translation so why didn't the translators correct for that? Further, if that is the case then one would have to be non-literal about lots of other parts of the Bible which doesn't seem to happen much around here, which was my main point.

Originally posted by Agerg
Well since you're not going out of your way to conceal your implication that I am a liar lemon lime, perhaps you would like explain this one.

Well go on, chop chop!

explain what?

You called me a liar when you said "You were not an atheist ;]"

I normally don't call anyone a liar, but since you didn't go out of your way to conceal your implication that blah blah yada yada...


this is hilarious... I can make my point by simply repeating what you say back to you.

Originally posted by divegeester
Like never being a true Scotsman?

😉

Good spot.

Originally posted by lemon lime
explain what?

You called me a liar when you said "You were not an atheist ;]"

I normally don't call anyone a liar, but since you didn't go out of your way to conceal your implication that blah blah yada yada...


this is hilarious... I can make my point by simply repeating what you say back to you.

Well I think you need a refresher on the definition of lying; essentially the person telling a lie has to believe that he or she is conveying information that is false. I on the other hand am absolutely sure that you were not any form of atheist that is deserving of that term.

Also, I didn't actually call you a liar now did I? Indeed I could just have easily been suggesting that you were mistaken (I was by the way) .

The hilarity is all you lemon lime 🙂