The Bible accepts homosexuality!

Originally posted by sumydid
Sorry to interrupt you two...

But Ullr, given that situation, you wouldn't be in any position to provide compensation to anyone for anything.

Well it's a stupid thread tangent anyhow. My only point is that I believe that the only way to really atone for mistakes is to first take responsibility for them and not seek to hide behind a mythological salvation. If one cannot do this then they should be outlawed.

Originally posted by Ullr
Well it's a stupid thread tangent anyhow. My only point is that I believe that the only way to really atone for mistakes is to first take responsibility for them and not seek to hide behind a mythological salvation. If one cannot do this then they should be outlawed.

Do you think it's possible that we were created. And I mean created by the same Creator that created everything we observe.

And if so, do you believe we could have been created by a being with attributes similar to ours, such as emotion for example.

I'm not asking if you believe it or if it fits into your paradigm; only wondering if you think it's even possible.

Originally posted by sumydid
Do you think it's possible that we were created. And I mean created by the same Creator that created everything we observe.

And if so, do you believe we could have been created by a being with attributes similar to ours, such as emotion for example.

I'm not asking if you believe it or if it fits into your paradigm; only wondering if you think it's even possible.

Yes I think it is possible. I ponder it often.

Originally posted by Ullr
Yes I think it is possible. I ponder it often.

Doesn't it seem totally self-aggrandizing for us human beings to suggest that the Creator of the universe would... of all things... plunk us human beings down on this planet as His pride and joy?

Originally posted by sumydid
Doesn't it seem totally self-aggrandizing for us human beings to suggest that the Creator of the universe would... of all things... plunk us human beings down on this planet as His pride and joy?

I don't necessarily think that a creator, if there is one, just plunked us down. Perhaps a supreme all intelligent being would design a system of life that could evolve and survive on it's own. Wouldn't that be ingenious?

Originally posted by Ullr
I don't necessarily think that a creator, if there is one, just plunked us down. Perhaps a supreme all intelligent being would design a system of life that could evolve and survive on it's own. Wouldn't that be ingenious?

That could very well be ingenious. But going with the possibility that this Creator did this because at least in part, He wanted His creation to love Him... then it would make sense for Him to be involved in our affairs. Obviously this Creator couldn't be loved if He/She wasn't even known about.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
morality? that is a human concept. that changes from one month to the next. sometimes it happens that "moral" is the same with "good". quite often "moral" is the same with "stupid". and sometimes "moral" is quite evil.


it used to be moral to live your life in total obedience toward your feudal lord. moral for greeks to doink small boys.


don't tal ...[text shortened]... that god is love and that god could care less what people do with their genitals.

Why do you think God made those genitals if He could care less what people
did with them? What did God mean when He told the man and the woman
to be fruitful and multiply?

Originally posted by Ullr
"Yes you do. And someday God will remind you of some of the people you stepped on who would agree that "This guy needed SOME kind of salvation"

If any god or man is to ever remind me of anyone I have unfairly stepped upon in my past then I will gladly offer up compensation to my victims rather than ask for salvation to make things "even Steven".

If any god or man is to ever remind me of anyone I have unfairly stepped upon in my past then I will gladly offer up compensation to my victims rather than ask for salvation to make things "even Steven".

Okay.

But to some you no longer have opportunity to do so.

While you are considering how at the last judgment you will excuse yourself to go quickly to make last minute amends with these people, contemplate also this:

God knew beforehand your propensity for sinning, your insensativity to the damage you caused. In love He saw your problem and made provision for you. The Son of God, Jesus made compensation before eternal justice on your behalf on His cross.

For you Christ made restitution at least, before God. And He commands us now to believe so and accept Him as our righteousness.

Ultimately, the sin was against God, though it was against people too. "Vengence is Mine, says the Lord, I will repay". What I transgressed really was an offense against the law of God and against Himself. For that Christ has substituted for you, me, and all sinners on Calvary's cross.

I think you should consider this because it is great provision and great love. He did this for you before you were even born. I think you should contemplate His provision for your need of forgiveness.

Originally posted by jaywill

If any god or man is to ever remind me of anyone I have unfairly stepped upon in my past then I will gladly offer up compensation to my victims rather than ask for salvation to make things "even Steven".

Okay.

But to some you no longer have opportunity to do so.

While you are considering how at the last judgmen ...[text shortened]... were even born. I think you should contemplate His provision for your need of forgiveness.

I admit you are good at this.

However, the mistake you are making is that you assume that I believe in your judgement day before the god of Israel. I do not. I do not require the salvation that you say Jesus has offered. I have chosen my own spiritual path. I have made my oaths that I will not break. You follow the White Christ. I stand beside Red Thor. That's really all there is too it.

Originally posted by Ullr
I admit you are good at this.

However, the mistake you are making is that you assume that I believe in your judgement day before the god of Israel. I do not. I do not require the salvation that you say Jesus has offered. I have chosen my own spiritual path. I have made my oaths that I will not break. You follow the White Christ. I stand beside Red Thor. That's really all there is too it.

Actually, what someone believes is irrelevant. What has to happen will happen. If Red Thor is the God who will judge us then Christians will be judged by him. If the God of Israel is the God then he will judge. If there is no God then .. whatever.

Jer 32:26-27 Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying, Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh ...

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
not quite.

many concepts are not "our" concepts. they exist independently of human consciousness and they are simply acknowledged by us. the earth revolved around the son long before humans figured it out.

morals in general are human constructs. some humans deem it wrong to have sex in exchange for money even if, to be fair, it would simply be th ...[text shortened]... bring into discussion "beliefs about the physical world " when i was talking about morality

No. Those are not concepts. Those are facts. Objects, facts, states of affairs, etc. are typically taken to exist independently of our representations. Concepts are our representations. That is why they are all ours. Concepts do not exist independently of us. What concepts refer to; what our representations represent, often do. The point of my post above was that none of the points you raise about our moral notions indicate that there is no fact of the matter about whether certain things are right or wrong. Your points apply equally well to our physical notions (people disagree, have changed their opinion through time, differ across cultures, etc.). But the fact of disagreement or change in belief doesn't indicate anything about the physical world. Similarly for morality. If you want to argue for relativism or subjectivism or whatever, you need to do more than merely point out that people disagree about morality.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why do you think God made those genitals if He could care less what people
did with them? What did God mean when He told the man and the woman
to be fruitful and multiply?

that damn horny humans should stop when there are enough people in the world and stop breeding like rabbits

he made it fun so the cavemen have an incentive to be fruitful when there were so few humans that a sniffle or some drought could wipe out the whole race

and now that we are quite enough people on this rock, we can have some fun sex without making a baby at each schlong insertion .

Originally posted by bbarr
No. Those are not concepts. Those are facts. Objects, facts, states of affairs, etc. are typically taken to exist independently of our representations. Concepts are our representations. That is why they are all ours. Concepts do not exist independently of us. What concepts refer to; what our representations represent, often do. The point of my post abo ...[text shortened]... ism or whatever, you need to do more than merely point out that people disagree about morality.

you misunderstood my post. i wasn't claiming there is no fact of the matter why certain things are wrong or not. i was arguing from the opposite direction: that some morals are simply man made, will change as quickly as society does and have no "good" or "evil" label attached to them



it used to be immoral for women to wear anything other than dresses and those dresses had to be to the ground. it will always be evil to murder a child.

Originally posted by jaywill

your post fails at the notion that there must be a "male" and a "female" when it comes to sex.

I don't think we should start by considering the way tapeworms reproduce to be the model that humans should follow.

Man is connected to the other creatures for sure. But in spite of this connection man is also occupying a unique place a ...[text shortened]... "straight" ?

Anyway, we are humans and not flatworms.[/b]

it is quite disturbing that when i mention the notion of pleasure from sex, you jump to deviate, psychotic behavior. if i mention the pleasure of eating chocolate will you mention how some people might enjoy throwing hot boiling chocolate in someones eyes?


what part of consenting adults don't you understand?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
it is quite disturbing that when i mention the notion of pleasure from sex, you jump to deviate, psychotic behavior. if i mention the pleasure of eating chocolate will you mention how some people might enjoy throwing hot boiling chocolate in someones eyes?


what part of consenting adults don't you understand?

The title of this thread you started is "The Bible accepts homosexuality"

Which part of "sin against God" do you not understand ?

If you want to argue that in a society's governing laws, whatever is done by "mutual consent" is legal, then that may be another issue. I don't think you are arguing that way. I think you are going beyond to implicate the Bible.

So I ask you which part of God the ultimate lawgiver do YOU not understand ? And which part of God's word pronouncing homosexual sex as an abomination in need of forgiveness and sanctification do you not understand ?