@josephw saidOh but it has.
"The church" hasn't "permitted" that misconception. That is just one of the false premises of your sophomoric OP.
When was the last time, any time, you have ever heard a preacher messaging that Jesus is in hell overseeing the casting of people into the lake of fire?
@josephw saidTell me, was that scripture in Revelation which you are referring to, chronologically speaking, the very last words of the Bible to be written ?
Unlike you I won't add words to the scriptures.
You do understand what happens to those that do don't you?
And if you don’t know, then how can you be sure other texts weren’t added after it?
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08 Feb 22
@divegeester saidRevelation was the last book of the Holy Bible that was written and the admonishment you’re referring to are the last words in that book.
Tell me, was that scripture in Revelation which you are referring to, chronologically speaking, the very last words of the Bible to be written ?
And if you don’t know, then how can you be sure other texts weren’t added after it?
Sounds pretty straightforward to this hombre.
Though I would add it appears the admonishment refers specifically to the book of Revelation and not the Bible as a whole.
Here it is, and the concluding verses of Revelation:
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”
(Revelation 22:18-21)
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08 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidSo you adding “billions” to Revelation 14:10 is a big No-No.
Revelation was the last book of the Holy Bible that was written and the admonishment you’re referring to are the last words in that book.
Sounds pretty straightforward to this hombre.
Though I would add it appears the admonishment refers specifically to the book of Revelation and not the Bible as a whole.
Here it is, and the concluding verses of Revelation:
“For I ...[text shortened]... , Lord Jesus.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”
(Revelation 22:18-21)
No way around that.
09 Feb 22
2 edits
@divegeester saidYou have to twist so much to say this; no one I know who has ever read the Bible once says such things. If they get their theology out of movies or other works of fiction, maybe, but those who do that I would not count as 'the church' and being happy about it is also something that only comes between your ears, not reality.
As I said in my OP the church has been happy to permit the misconception that it is the Devil rather than a version of Jesus overseeing the casting into the lake of fire.
Getting their theology out of works of fiction is as bad as looking at scripture and denying what it says on the topic.
@kellyjay saidI’m not twisting anything, let alone “so much”.
You have to twist so much to say this; no one I know who has ever read the Bible once says such things. If they get their theology out of movies or other works of fiction, maybe, but those who do that I would not count as 'the church' and being happy about it is also something that only comes between your ears, not reality.
Getting their theology out of works of fiction is as bad as looking at scripture and denying what it says on the topic.
No Christian I have ever met has also never said these things either. That’s the point KellyJay, no Christian EVER says “no, it’s not the devil casting people into lakes of fire, or overseeing hell itself, it’s Jesus. See here is the scripture in Revelation to prove it”. No Christian ever says that.
So you are actually correct, no Christian EVER says this, which is why in the secular world this misconception exists, the misconception where they think hell is run by the Devil.
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@divegeester saidWhy are you constantly trashing the Name of Jesus Christ?
I’m not twisting anything, let alone “so much”.
No Christian I have ever met has also never said these things either. That’s the point KellyJay, no Christian EVER says “no, it’s not the devil casting people into lakes of fire, or overseeing hell itself, it’s Jesus. See here is the scripture in Revelation to prove it”. No Christian ever says that.
So you are actuall ...[text shortened]... ecular world this misconception exists, the misconception where they think hell is run by the Devil.
10 Feb 22
@divegeester saidYou also keep getting bent out of shape that Christ is the one who rules over even Hell and stands in judgment and condemns those outside of Him; it is difficult to know what you think, given the arguments you make about that. The scripture is very clear all of us have sinned, we all have fallen short, there is none righteous, not one, that the world stands condemned by God as its usual place before Him, and it is Christ who saves from God's wrath which is coming, and those that reject that salvation stands before God sinners condemned for their sins.
I’m not twisting anything, let alone “so much”.
No Christian I have ever met has also never said these things either. That’s the point KellyJay, no Christian EVER says “no, it’s not the devil casting people into lakes of fire, or overseeing hell itself, it’s Jesus. See here is the scripture in Revelation to prove it”. No Christian ever says that.
So you are actuall ...[text shortened]... ecular world this misconception exists, the misconception where they think hell is run by the Devil.
@kellyjay saidSo no reply for what I actually posted?
You also keep getting bent out of shape that Christ is the one who rules over even Hell and stands in judgment and condemns those outside of Him; it is difficult to know what you think, given the arguments you make about that. The scripture is very clear all of us have sinned, we all have fallen short, there is none righteous, not one, that the world stands condemned by God ...[text shortened]... is coming, and those that reject that salvation stands before God sinners condemned for their sins.
@kellyjay saidBut I WILL address why you specifically say, even if you won’t reciprocate. Your points follow by my SPECIFIC replies then:
You also keep getting bent out of shape that Christ is the one who rules over even Hell and stands in judgment and condemns those outside of Him; it is difficult to know what you think, given the arguments you make about that. The scripture is very clear all of us have sinned, we all have fallen short, there is none righteous, not one, that the world stands condemned by God ...[text shortened]... is coming, and those that reject that salvation stands before God sinners condemned for their sins.
“You also keep getting bent out of shape that Christ is the one who rules over even Hell and stands in judgment and condemns those outside of Him”
My reply - No I don’t get “bent out of shape at all. What I’ve said is in my OP and every reply to you personally, no “bending out of shape” at all.
“it is difficult to know what you think, given the arguments you make about that.”
My reply - I’ve been absolutely unequivocal, clear and concise.
“The scripture is very clear all of us have sinned, we all have fallen short, there is none righteous, not one, that the world stands condemned by God as its usual place before Him, and it is Christ who saves from God's wrath which is coming, and those that reject that salvation stands before God sinners condemned for their sins.”
My reply- Very nice, but a complete non sequitur in terms of what I posted in reply to you, and indeed my OP.
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10 Feb 22
@divegeester saidWhy did you omit the verses on either side of Revelation 14:10 that describe who is in hell and falsely claim it was “billions” of “non-Christians” and not Satan worshippers who accepted the mark of the beast?
In what way? I’m only quoting what is said in Revelation.
Why are you avoiding it? Which is exactly what I say the church does in my OP.
Have another read of the OP before replying.
Clearly you must have known what you wrote about Jesus Christ overseeing the “torture” of “billions” of “non-Christians” was false.
Why did you write it, if not to trash the Name of Jesus Christ?
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11 Feb 22
Coming up after the commercial break:
CUT TO @divegeester flogging a dead horse in the Lake of Fire.
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12 Feb 22
@kevin-eleven saidHe falsely represented that quote from Revelation 14:10 by saying Jesus Christ was watching over “billions” of non-Christians burning in hell, while the verses immediately before and after that verse make clear the people in hell are Satan worshippers who received Satan’s mark - not simply non-Christians.
Coming up after the commercial break:
CUT TO @divegeester flogging a dead horse in the Lake of Fire.
It’s hard to believe his misrepresentation was an accident given the correct info was in the verses immediately before and immediately after the verse he quoted.
It was a very shameful thing to do and not at all indicative of a Christ follower, in PB’s opinion.
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12 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidI think too many people read Revelations/The Apocalypse of John too literally.
He falsely represented that quote from Revelation 14:10 by saying Jesus Christ was watching over “billions” of non-Christians burning in hell, while the verses immediately before and after that verse make clear the people in hell are Satan worshippers who received Satan’s mark - not simply non-Christians.
It’s hard to believe his misrepresentation was an accident given the ...[text shortened]...
It was a very shameful thing to do and not at all indicative of a Christ follower, in PB’s opinion.
It's probably a coded political allegory, a coded mystical allegory, or the first widely disseminated trip report.