26 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by gaychessplayerWhy do you think it was one of the most stupendous moments in human history ?
One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
Maybe you put more importants on precisely when the moment was than the Bible does.
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by gaychessplayerHistorians don't even agree that it definitely happened.
One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by gaychessplayerI don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.
One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
You have one story repeated twice.
And the story comes with conflicting clues:
In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC
During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD
At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sepphoris a few miles from Nazareth and then marched on Jerusalem. His followers were called Zealots.
The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by Red NightI don't think that anyone believes that December 25 was the actual day that Christ was born. Perhaps there are but I have not met any including those of faith.
I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.
You have one story repeated twice.
And the story comes with conflicting clues:
In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC
During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD
At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sep ...[text shortened]... Zealots.
The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by Red NightAlso, the Matthew and Luke nativity stories are quite different--I hadn't realized just how contradictory they were until my minister recently pointed it out.
I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.
You have one story repeated twice.
And the story comes with conflicting clues:
In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC
During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD
At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sep ...[text shortened]... Zealots.
The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by Red NightIt wasn't made up. It was chosen in order to make pagan Germans more receptive to Christianity. They probably got it from the proximity to the Winter Solstice, but I'm not sure.
I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.
You have one story repeated twice.
And the story comes with conflicting clues:
In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC
During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD
At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sep ...[text shortened]... Zealots.
The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
27 Dec 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThere are a lot of re-birth stories centering around the solstice.
It wasn't made up. It was chosen in order to make pagan Germans more receptive to Christianity. They probably got it from the proximity to the Winter Solstice, but I'm not sure.
Osiris, Mithras, Ishtar, Saturn, Apollo
27 Dec 07
2 edits
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAnd the Roman Catholic Church desired to make everything pertaining to Christ palatable to the masses. So they came up with the 25th of December, the old Saturnalia, be the birthday of Jesus.
Because that's when the days start getting longer again and life begins to bloom once more.
And they adopted the ancient symbol fo a mother and child which predated the Gospels by over a throusand years, be the Virgin Mary with baby Jesus. And the world has Christmas and Easter and Holloween. And skeptics point to all of these mixtures as proof that the Gospel of Jesus is of pagan origin.
Yet when reading the New Testament none of these things can be found. (One exception I am aware of - in King James Version, the word "Easter" may be found in the book of Acts.) It is a bad translation at that point.
And we have Thursday which is really THOR's day.
And we have Monday which is really the MOON's day.
It is hard to get away from historic Christiandom's influence on Western culture.
And many other things related to pagan worship which have been "Christianized"
Then we have skeptics of the Gospel react that all this religious mixture "proves" that the Christian Gospel was a pagan belief system.
This mixture of the pure gospel with pagan symbols was the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy that the woman took three measures of leaven and mixed it with the meal until the whole thing became leavened.
So Satan tried to destroy the Christian church from without by persecution. Then he tried to destroy the church from within by mixture with the world.
Both have failed. And the gates of Hades still cannot prevail against the church that Christ founded.
27 Dec 07
6 edits
Well over 100 years ago Christian scholar Alexander Hislop, in his book The Two Babylons documented pagan symbols Christianized by the Roman Catholics.
He told us all about the garbs and dress of the clerical class in Catholicism. He told us all about Easter, Christmas, yul logs, Christmas trees, December 25th, Easter Eggs, reefs, stockings, Mother and Child pictures going back to Babylonian religion centries before the birth of Jesus.
We learned these things over a century ago in Hislop's classic book on symbols of the Roman Catholic Church - "The Two Babylons"
And the Protestant churches, though they broke away in the Reformation, carried loads of these symbols with them.