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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeNo, I don’t. But Christians aren’t perfect and do still sin. The key is when that happens, to repent, seek forgiveness from the Lord, and ask Him to give you the wisdom and self control to keep you from sinning as much as possible.
That wasn't the question. I asked you (romans1009) clearly:
'As a Christian, do you 'romans1009' think it okay for a Christian to deliberately deceive people? (A link to the 10 Commandments is pending). '
Originally posted by @romans1009Suppose someone [djbecker for example] continues to operate several accounts knowing that it is willful deception, would God continue to forgive him over and over and over. At what point does it end, and would God eventually write him off.
No, I don’t. But Christians aren’t perfect and do still sin. The key is when that happens, to repent, seek forgiveness from the Lord, and ask Him to give you the wisdom and self control to keep you from sinning as much as possible.
Bear in mind that the Bible says that Christians who sin willfully will find no repentance.
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02 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Good.
No, I don’t. But Christians aren’t perfect and do still sin. The key is when that happens, to repent, seek forgiveness from the Lord, and ask Him to give you the wisdom and self control to keep you from sinning as much as possible.
So to clarify, a Christian who deliberately deceived people (by pretending to be someone else with a second account) but then publically apologized for doing so (seeking forgiveness) was rightly forgiven. However, if that same Christian was to go on and do exactly the same thing again then they would be demonstrating a lack of 'wisdom and self-control.'
Are we agreed on that?
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Originally posted by @rajk999God never writes anyone off and no one is beyond forgiveness. We live in an age of grace thanks to Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. But even before then, God demonstrated that no one is beyond forgiveness and redemption by using Saul of Tarsus, one of the worst persecutors of Christians, to carry His message to the Gentiles and to write a majority of the New Testament. As long as Becker was sincere in his repentance and genuinely trying to do what is right, I think God would forgive him and have mercy on him. Remember Jesus’ response when one of His disciples asked Him if he should forgive someone seven times. Jesus said not just seven times, but 70 times seven.
Suppose someone [djbecker for example] continues to operate several accounts knowing that it is willful deception, would God continue to forgive him over and over and over. At what point does it end, and would God eventually write him off.
Bear in mind that the Bible says that Christians who sin willfully will find no repentance.
Originally posted by @romans1009Wrong. God does in fact write off people.
God never writes anyone off and no one is beyond forgiveness. We live in an age of grace thanks to Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. But even before then, God demonstrated that no one is beyond forgiveness and redemption by using Saul of Tarsus, one of the worst persecutors of Christians, to carry His message to the Gentiles and to write a majority ...[text shortened]... m if he should forgive someone seven times. Jesus said not just seven times, but 70 times seven.
Wrong again. The age of grace and the sacrifice of Christ does not guarantee continued sinning and repentance and forgiveness over and over.
Wrong a third time. Saul of Tarsus was not one of the worst persecutors of Christians [ there were many worse than him] Saul was the most dedicated Pharisee.who carried out the Law of Moses which he pledged to do and God used this dedication to duty and made him a follower of Christ.
Wrong a fourth time. Becker cannot possibly be sincere when he repeats the very same sin of willful deception over and over.
Wrong for the fifth time [must be a record] Jesus's commandment to forgive over and over has nothing to do with God. We .. WE are commanded to forgive over and over, not God. God is not there to follow commandments. God is there to take revenge on sinners. You want the Bible reference for that?
I can provide Bible references for all the above statements. let me know if you want them.
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Originally posted by @rajk999Well, you’re certainly full of yourself!
Wrong. God does in fact write off people.
Wrong again. The age of grace and the sacrifice of Christ does not guarantee continued sinning and repentance and forgiveness over and over.
Wrong a third time. Saul of Tarsus was not one of the worst persecutors of Christians [ there were many worse than him] Saul was the most dedicated Pharisee.who carried out ...[text shortened]... t?
I can provide Bible references for all the above statements. let me know if you want them.
Where has God written off people post Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection? Do you have names?
Continued willful sinning and continued sinning are not the same thing. The Lord is primarily concerned with one’s heart, but even someone who is unable to stop sinning does not lose salvation or his or her status as a child of God. Such a person would certainly be subject to chastisement and correction by God but that is not the same as God “writing someone off.”
Saul of Tarsus was indeed one of the worst persecutors of early Christians. Not the worst; one of the worst. Read Acts Chapter 9.
Becker can indeed be sincere if he is weak in this area, just as an alcoholic and smoker can continue abusing the Lord’s temple despite a sincere desire to stop.
God taking revenge on sinners is Old Testament. As I said, we are living in an age of grace.
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02 Feb 18
“But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.“
(1 Samuel 16:7)
(Old Testament!)
02 Feb 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeGod, no.
Creating multiple accounts makes no sense to me.
I do though find it rather odd that when we have these characters (from time to time) who try to deceive people with second accounts, it is Christians like yourself and sonship (who shrugged his shoulders I recall when Becker admitted his deception last time) who apparently have no qualms about a f ...[text shortened]... faith you project here. What message do you think that sends out to non-believers? (Seriously).
On nearly everything.
I just gave you a plausible reason for a person to do that very thing, so, while it fails to register on your scale to prompt similar action, it would certainly "make sense" to a person with the same mindset.
Smart as I consider muh-self, I fail to see the deception.
This is the only place in the world where I am called Freaky.
[Okay, okay... may have been a few instances, here and there, but strictly on a private basis.]
Otherwise, we're nearly all known by pseudonym, avatar.
Creating another avatar is somehow disingenuous?
The only thing that comes to mind which could possibly inform that thinking is the insane idea that truth is somehow going to be determined by our deliberations here, and we'll be damned if someone tips the scale in their favor by casting unfair ballots.
It couldn't be that, right?
Please tell me that's my paranoid mind thinking.
Otherwise, who cares if someone invented twelve of themselves?
I encourage someone to do that very thing: it has the potential for high comedy watching them run themselves ragged trying to maintain articulated characters throughout twelve different arcs.
I would double my prescription for that ship.
Minus p, plus t.
And, lastly, as to whether or not it's permissible for a Christian to undertake that personality challenge, I say:
Why bother, brother?
But if that's your bag, get it.
Same for the obstinate still among us.
If that's what makes you consider yourself productive whilst ensuring no animals, midgets, small children, human beings in general or anything within the immediate ecosystem or known universe was harmed in the filming of your production , I'm front row with you, mowing on greasy popcorn and picking Dots out of my teeth.
Why don't you give it a go, old chap!
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02 Feb 18
Originally posted by @freakykbhSeem's your lack of understanding about what constitutes 'deception' is matched only by your lack of understanding about the laws of gravity and curvature of the Earth.
God, no.
On nearly everything.
I just gave you a plausible reason for a person to do that very thing, so, while it fails to register on your scale to prompt similar action, it would certainly "make sense" to a person with the same mindset.
Smart as I consider muh-self, I fail to see the deception.
This is the only place in the world where I am c ...[text shortened]... ing on greasy popcorn and picking Dots out of my teeth.
Why don't you give it a go, old chap!
Originally posted by @romans1009This is Paul speaking in the Age of Grace, addressing Christian Saints.
Well, you’re certainly full of yourself!
Where has God written off people post Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection? Do you have names?
Continued willful sinning and continued sinning are not the same thing. The Lord is primarily concerned with one’s heart, but even someone who is unable to stop sinning does not lose salvation or his or her status as ...[text shortened]... p.
God taking revenge on sinners is Old Testament. As I said, we are living in an age of grace.
Not ordinary people. SAINTS.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,
which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy,
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God,
and hath counted the blood of the covenant,
wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing,
and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me,
I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again,
The Lord shall judge his people. (Hebrews 10:26-30 KJV)
This one passage makes mincemeat of your foolish doctrine.
Here is a paraphrase.
Christians who sin willfully are in grave danger of destruction.
Gods fiery indignation will destroy them
In fact rather than more grace and forgiveness there is LESS.
In the time of Moses these people died without mercy.
Now that sin means trampling the Son of God,
a sorer punnjihsment awaits Christians who sin wilfully.
God will take vengeance on these people.
Dont say I did not point out these passages to you.
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Originally posted by @rajk999You’re post hardly refutes mine, as I made a distinction between sinning and willfully sinning (sinning without remorse, repentance or request for forgiveness.)
This is Paul speaking in the Age of Grace, addressing Christian Saints.
Not ordinary people. SAINTS.
[i]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,
which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despis ...[text shortened]...
God will take vengeance on these people.
Dont say I did not point out these passages to you.
Originally posted by @romans1009A sorer punishment awaits you.
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
(Romans 8:38-39)
Sorer means WORSE THAN the time of Moses.
Is that more grace or less?
Lol 😀
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Do you understand what Paul is saying in that passage from Hebrews? Do you understand that Paul is not focused on the act of sinning as much as he is on the condition of the sinner’s heart? Is the sinner remorseful? Is the sinner genuinely trying to honor God? Or is the sinner openly defying and blaspheming God after he has received knowledge of God’s saving grace through Jesus Christ?
Do you understand the difference? The Lord looks on the heart.
Originally posted by @romans1009Yep and when he looks into your heart and see that you are without remorse for creating duplicate factious accounts contrary to your agreement, and you do it over and over and over .. you are going to get into some sorer punishment 😀
Do you understand what Paul is saying in that passage from Hebrews? Do you understand that Paul is not focused on the act of sinning as much as he is on the condition of the sinner’s heart? Is the sinner remorseful? Is the sinner genuinely trying to honor God? Or is the sinner openly defying and blaspheming God after he has received knowledge of God’s saving grace through Jesus Christ?
Do you understand the difference? The Lord looks on the heart.