The case for Adam & Eve.

Originally posted by menace71
Actually too I believe we're regressing genetically which kinda flys in the face of classic evolution. Things go from order to chaos. People can argue we live longer these days but 70-80 or 90 years if we believe the biblical account we lived 100's of years.



Manny

That's true. Man was closer to perfection then and inherited it from their parents Adam and Eve. And another point is before the flood man was not as exposed to the harmful rays of the sun as he was afterwards. That no doubt affects us more as we see with skin cancers.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I stated this in response to your suggestion that "archaeology has provided ample evidence that the contents are trustworthy."

I am not aware of a single instance where archaeology has provided any evidence for any miraculous biblical event.

why are you asking me to justify a value you designated? did i state all contents, no, did i even mention miraculous events, no I did not. As i have pointed now for perhaps the third time, i had specifics in mind, of which i have provided examples, the fall of Tyre, The destruction of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon, the existence of Pilate, the existence of Christ etc etc , all corroborated by archaeological and historical evidence!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why are you asking me to justify a value you designated? did i state all contents, no, did i even mention miraculous events, no I did not. As i have pointed now for perhaps the third time, i had specifics in mind, of which i have provided examples, the fall of Tyre, The destruction of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon, the existence of Pilate, the existence of Christ etc etc , all corroborated by archaeological and historical evidence!

But that makes it no better than a history book - of which we have plenty of ancient examples - even if you are telling the truth. If anything, you are no doubt using some of those history books as evidence.

So where in the Bible does it mention the fall of Tyre, the destruction of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon and the existence of Christ? Where is the archaeological and historical evidence for those events?
How does a match above, justify claiming that other books of the Bible, written at other times by other people are somehow more reliable?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Not entirely. Evolution only implies change. It doesn't guarantee positive change. Natural selection does encourage positive change, but not guarantee it, and evolutionary dead ends are common place. Longevity is not necessarily considered positive from an evolutionary standpoint.
However, I rather doubt your belief is based on evidence (or even religion e people cleverer, taller, healthier, in the past? What other characteristics are regressing?

I can agree with you on medical advances and just technology in general helping prolong our lifespans.


The Second Law of Thermodynamics is where I got the idea that systems generally degrade and not vice versa. In the end we still die. 1/1 ratio we are all going to die.
The universe is winding down. Why do we die? Physical death? In this current universe the sun will eventually die. The Universe will eventually die. (Of course unless there is some intervention)


Manny

Originally posted by twhitehead
But that makes it no better than a history book - of which we have plenty of ancient examples - even if you are telling the truth. If anything, you are no doubt using some of those history books as evidence.

So where in the Bible does it mention the fall of Tyre, the destruction of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon and the existence of Christ? Where is th ...[text shortened]... that other books of the Bible, written at other times by other people are somehow more reliable?

The fall of Tyre is mentioned in the old testament. Funny thing is a lot of the stuff mentioned in the old testament sounds crazy but archeology is finding the things mentioned to be true. There are historical evidences for the life of Christ outside of the bible. There are other accounts of events that are recorded in the old testament from other cultures such as the Sumerians. All of the flood stories like 100's of them for example. Some of the stories are just crazy but this just lends credence to the fact the some event occurred in our past. As is the case with man stories become embellished but I believe most tales have truths in them that can be traced back to some common truth.

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
The fall of Tyre is mentioned in the old testament. Funny thing is a lot of the stuff mentioned in the old testament sounds crazy but archeology is finding the things mentioned to be true. There are historical evidences for the life of Christ outside of the bible. There are other accounts of events that are recorded in the old testament from other cultures ...[text shortened]... I believe most tales have truths in them that can be traced back to some common truth.

Manny

Of course some of the stories has a real background. But that doesn't say that all stories are true.

There was a man once now called Jesus, some doubt it, I don't. But only a few details are confirmed by other sorces than the bible. The stories in the bible is written down long time after Jesus was dead. Therefore, almost everything we know about him is nothing more than hear-say.

There were some floodings in the river areas, yes ofcourse, but there are no evidence, no confirmed observations, that there was a global flooding described in the genesis. The story about the ark is a good story, but that's all.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Of course some of the stories has a real background. But that doesn't say that all stories are true.

There was a man once now called Jesus, some doubt it, I don't. But only a few details are confirmed by other sorces than the bible. The stories in the bible is written down long time after Jesus was dead. Therefore, almost everything we know about him i ...[text shortened]... l flooding described in the genesis. The story about the ark is a good story, but that's all.

I would disagree some people and 100's of flood stories say otherwise. There are some scientist that believe a world wide flood did occur. There are evidences such as Sea shells being found at altitudes way above sea level. I don't think the argument is 100% that no world wide flood occurred. It seems to be a part of human lore and it is recorded in ancient text. Why would these people even waste their time to record some event that did not occur? I would argue that some event occurred and it's more likely than not. The Sumerian/Genesis account is very close also. Where did man get the idea that we came from the ground? If we use the arguments of written history and discount them how can we know or trust any account in history? Example:Columbus coming to the Americas? How do we know? Or any history?

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is where I got the idea that systems generally degrade and not vice versa.

Would you care to state the Second Law of Thermodynamics and why you interpret it as "systems generally degrade"? Or did you just read it somewhere? It is a popular misinterpretation, but I have to inform you that it is wrong.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Maybe this will help manny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_writing

All this does is support the case that written language is a relatively recent event in human history. 5000 years or so is not a long time if were expected to believe man was around longer than that. If man has been around longer than this why the relatively recent explosion in written language? Political or for record keeping? But this does not satisfy depth of time if say man was around longer than this. My argument is that language is programmed into us or we are preprogrammed for language both written and oral.


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
The fall of Tyre is mentioned in the old testament.

Where? And where is the archeological evidence backing it up?

Funny thing is a lot of the stuff mentioned in the old testament sounds crazy but archeology is finding the things mentioned to be true.
Sorry, but the fall of Tyre doesn't sound crazy to me at all. Cities were regularly sacked and burned. It doesn't seem odd to me that someone would record that in a book.
The things that do sound crazy to me, are not supported by archeology - which has already been admitted by Robbie.

There are historical evidences for the life of Christ outside of the bible.
So people on this forum keep saying, but when I ask for that evidence there is silence. Can you do better, or are you simply repeating what you have heard and do not actually know of any such historical evidence?

All of the flood stories like 100's of them for example. Some of the stories are just crazy but this just lends credence to the fact the some event occurred in our past.
No it doesn't. It just lends credence to the fact that floods, and flood stories are common. They are not the only disaster stories either.

As is the case with man stories become embellished but I believe most tales have truths in them that can be traced back to some common truth.
What if the truth behind them is local to an area? Why should a tale about devastating fires in Australia have a common truth with a tale from Europe?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Would you care to state the Second Law of Thermodynamics and why you interpret it as "systems generally degrade"? Or did you just read it somewhere? It is a popular misinterpretation, but I have to inform you that it is wrong.

Please explain how this is wrong as I understand This effects or is it affects all systems including biological systems. I did read it somewhere. Maybe I did misunderstand it. Heat loss or energy loss. That can never really be reclaimed.





Manny

Originally posted by twhitehead
Where? And where is the archeological evidence backing it up?

[b]Funny thing is a lot of the stuff mentioned in the old testament sounds crazy but archeology is finding the things mentioned to be true.
Sorry, but the fall of Tyre doesn't sound crazy to me at all. Cities were regularly sacked and burned. It doesn't seem odd to me that someone would ...[text shortened]... uld a tale about devastating fires in Australia have a common truth with a tale from Europe?[/b]

The Fall of Tyre part of this is mentioned in the book of Ezekiel 27 and I'm sure it can be cross referenced with other passages.

Josephus mentioned Christ Also think about this for a minute a whole system is based off the idea that Christ lived and died and ect. Jews don't deny that Jesus lived only that he was not the messiah. How do we know for sure any historical figure actually lived?

Yes I've read for example that the city of Nineveh was believed to be a fairytale until it was found in the late 1800's by some archeologist.

The stories of the bible do sound crazy at casual glance like the ark story.

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
I would disagree some people and 100's of flood stories say otherwise. There are some scientist that believe a world wide flood did occur. There are evidences such as Sea shells being found at altitudes way above sea level. I don't think the argument is 100% that no world wide flood occurred. It seems to be a part of human lore and it is recorded in ancient ...[text shortened]... n history? Example:Columbus coming to the Americas? How do we know? Or any history?

Manny

100's of local floods don't make one global flood.

Shells on high altitudes just proves tectonics in work.

If you doubt Columbus arrival to the New World, then you doubt much.

On the other hand - if you take stories as true only because they are told, written, or experienced, then you would surely belive in evolution, BigBang, or any science, because they are told, written, and experienced.

Originally posted by galveston75
That's true. Man was closer to perfection then and inherited it from their parents Adam and Eve. And another point is before the flood man was not as exposed to the harmful rays of the sun as he was afterwards. That no doubt affects us more as we see with skin cancers.

you're so funny.

quick, how did noah get t-rexes on the boat?

what did the tigers eat?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you're so funny.

quick, how did noah get t-rexes on the boat?

what did the tigers eat?

My aunty came up with a classic. She said that dinosaurs didn't exist but archaeologists fitted together bones from other animals to make them look like dinosaurs.