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15 Dec 19
3 edits
This could be thought of as similar to real life "copying errors" - perhaps the person presenting Jesus is doing so inaccurately, thus causing the newly minted Christian to have a flawed concept of Jesus inside of him.
Christ is a perfect person. His resurrection from the dead is God setting His seal upon His character, work, and life that is 100% approved by God - perfect. That is what qualified Him to be a atoning substituted for the sins of the world.
So there is no problem with Christ Himself. And there is no problem with God imparting Christ into us to be joined to Him as "one spirit" -
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) That means that part of a man's being becomes Jesus Christ. In a very real sense the forgiven sinner become Christ and Christ become the forgiven sinner.
Learning to live in this new reality when we are so USE to living in the old Adam is a matter that takes patience, forbearance, and time to perfect.
Any problem is here - our learning to LIVE in this new reality. The problem is that we are use to living one way by the old man, the fallen self. And by training, by endurance and forebearance we have to learn to live by union with the indwelling Lord.
That takes a lifetime of growth and development. And on the way the expression of the new life within is passing from one degree of purity to another, to another, to another.
For our frequent failures to fully express Christ there is the blood which constantly cleanses us as we are made aware of our shortages to live Him and confess out failures.
He concluded Adamamic race and initiated a new race of God indwelt human beings living in them as [divine and perfect human] life giving Spirit.
"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
But I assure you that Christ who became in the form of "life giving Spirit" so that He can be pasted into us, is a perfect man. there is no error or flaw in Him. There is no failure or corruption in Him.
15 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidMaybe, like yourself, there are things he “hasn’t noticed”.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
15 Dec 19
@sonship saidAnd here we have paragraphs of Standard Evangelical Cliches, none of which engaged the conversation.
@BigDoggProblem
This could be thought of as similar to real life "copying errors" - perhaps the person presenting Jesus is doing so inaccurately, thus causing the newly minted Christian to have a flawed concept of Jesus inside of him.
Christ is a perfect person. His resurrection from the dead is God setting His seal upon His character, work, and life ...[text shortened]... to us, is a perfect man. there is no error or flaw in Him. There is no failure or corruption in Him.
15 Dec 19
@rajk999 saidAgain you reveal how ignorant of the scriptures you are.
@sonship
Utter nonsense. There is nothing said or implied that remotely resembles copying and pasting of Jesus Christ into anybody. Jesus says IF you love Him, then you will KEEP the commandments and He will make His abode with you.
John 14:20&21
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
The real Christians posting in this forum know and keep the commandments of Jesus contrary to the accusations you make.
You're the one with the problem, not us.
15 Dec 19
@sonship saidRajk will argue against anything you say because of the ignorance that is in him relative to what the scriptures teach concerning "Christ in you" because he has not experienced the new birth.
@Rajk999
Why isn't Him making an abode with so many keepers of His commandments copying and pasting Himself into them?
15 Dec 19
@rajk999 saidThe narrowness and inflexibility of your mind prevents you from understanding what sonship means by "copy/pasting" "Christ in you".
Making His abode and copy and pasting are two different things .. idiot !!
You should learn what "idiot" means. You will. An idiot is one that cannot learn. You exemplify that condition.
15 Dec 19
@caesar-salad saidThe scriptures are "God breathed" and are the foundation of the truth according to God's Word.
I don't like this metaphor.
Maybe because I would have preferred an Akhnatenist-Platonic scripture, which would have been more groovy and sublime than the mental proclamations of a self-involved bunch of scruffy tribal sensualists.
Er ... and also because that copy-paste metaphor reminds me of "The Stepford Wives."
Plus the recurring threat and reward aspect of ...[text shortened]... re to go our own way and be damned, or beg to be mind-wiped and become Clone Christs? No thank you.
Akhnatenist-Platonic scripture may be what you prefer, but the Bible is God's Word.
And the Bible teaches that Christians are being "conformed to the image of his Son".
If you think that means being "mind-wiped" you are sadly mistaken and light years away from understanding what it means to be "born again".
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15 Dec 19
4 edits
And here we have paragraphs of Standard Evangelical Cliches, none of which engaged the conversation.
How in a more regular conversational way do you propose that I say "Christ is the perfect Person"? Let's start there. If you have a more conversational way to convey that truth, suggest it.
Now if you disagree or simply don't believe He is the perfect Person, don't use conversational etiquette as the excuse.
15 Dec 19
@bigdoggproblem said1 Corinthians 6:19-20
And here we have paragraphs of Standard Evangelical Cliches, none of which engaged the conversation.
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
15 Dec 19
@bigdoggproblem saidWhen the error occurs it is with the vessel and not Jesus.
My only question is, if there is an occasional copying error, can the Jesus within people evolve?
Jesus is being "formed in" the believer, but the believer must actively pursue or "follow after" the Spirit, and to the degree that the believer yields is he/she conformed, from within, "to the image of his Son".
It is a process called sanctification, and it takes a lifetime, but the full realization of it will not occur in this world.
Salvation>sanctification>glorification.
There's a good deal more to it than that, but you don't care do you?
15 Dec 19
@bigdoggproblem saidJesus' "approach" is immutable and inerrant. The problem, when there is one, is with the vessel.
@KellyJay
The "housing vessel", however, is not perfect, meaning there is some room for improvement in the combination of the two [Ctrl-V Jesus + the person he occupies].
Perhaps Inner Jesus can somehow modify his approach to better adapt his perfection with the imperfection of the housing vessel - present his holiness in a way that is a bit easier to understand, or more helpful, etc. for the human around him?
It is illogical to perceive the matter in any other way.
15 Dec 19
@bigdoggproblem saidPrecisely. Happens all the time. It's inevitable, and evident everywhere one looks.
This could be thought of as similar to real life "copying errors" - perhaps the person presenting Jesus is doing so inaccurately, thus causing the newly minted Christian to have a flawed concept of Jesus inside of him.
But, thankfully, there's a perpetual software update installed from the start.
"...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world".
And,
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"
It's a win/win scenario.
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15 Dec 19
1 edit
I am sorry that this is not as simple as many would like it to be.
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)
Paul identifies that treasure as excellent. That is the life of Christ copy and pasted into him.
But Paul realizes that the outer containing earthen vessel of his soul / body is not excellent. The treasure deposited in his spirit is the excellency.
But spirit and soul still comprise one person. An absolute separating of this parts of man is not in play. He is spirit and soul and body (1 Thess. 5:23)
Since he is one person, an outer non-excellent earth vessel and a inner treasure of Christ, in a unity of personhood, he needs to learn to let the innermost treasure apply more and more influence over the outer earthen container.
I don't know how this is for conversation, but I am trying to convey what is in the rest of the verses after verse 7 -
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us."
cont.
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15 Dec 19
2 edits
Emphatically I say Christ is perfect. And God makes no errors in His imparting Christ into any person.
Once the copy-pasting of Jesus is done we are in the state Paul refers to in 2 Cor. 4:7.
"But we have this TREASURE in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us."
A power seeps through.
A power of Christ's life begins to flow out.
In all kinds of adverse situations this life within is given an opportunity to prove Himself. And He is vindicated in our imperfect outer man that this inner man is excellent of a power that cannot be put down or suppressed or oppressed.
The next post will put a proof text to this from this very section of chapter 4.
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15 Dec 19
4 edits
The excellency of the powerful indwelling life - Jesus Christ, leave the Christian no room to boast in himself. She learns that the excellency of the power is of God and not of us.
"We have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us."
Look down now if you Second Corinthians is opened to verse 16
"Therefore we do not lose heart; but though our outer man is decaying, yet out inner man is being renewed day by day." (v.16)
Briefly - The inner man is initially just Christ in the innermost kernel of the man's being, his human spirit - "treasure in earthen vessels". But as transformation takes place the outer man is going down but the building up the inner man occurs as Christ spreads His influence over the soul and body.
That spreading is "our inner man is being renewed day by day".
What we lived by before, encountering adverse circumstances to allow Christ to grow, the outer man is decaying.
The OLD WAY of living is going down.
The NEW WAY of living out from the innermost spirit where Christ is a RENEWING of your being. The new man, the inner man is going UP.
"Therefore we do not lose heart; but though our outer man is decaying, yet out inner man is being renewed day by day.
For our momentary lightness of affliction works out for us, more and more surpassingly, an eternal weight of glory." (vs. 16,17)
Trials great and small, if we handle them right, are building the believe up for eternity and eternal glory.