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07 Jan 21
@chaney3 saidJesus was eventually found guilty and executed. Clearly there was dispute and discussion regarding the decision, but he was found guilty of something and he was executed.
Your opinion differs from Pilate's opinion.
If what you say is true, then Pilate would have found Jesus guilty, but he didn't.
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07 Jan 21
@chaney3 saidThen based on your rationale here, the account given is more likely to be true.
I understand your point, but the Bible is supposed to have been inspired by God, and written by men.
That belief is likely the only reason that people can 'attempt' to believe any of it.
And again, it would have been easier to blame Rome and Pilate because that story makes sense.
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07 Jan 21
@chaney3 saidIt makes sense the way it’s written.
Jesus causing crowd uprising (sedition).
Roman soldiers arrest Him.
Pilate finds Him guilty.
Sentenced to death.
It's clear, and makes sense.
The narrative we have instead is Pilate finding Jesus not guilty of any crime, and quite puzzled why the Jews are so persistent in getting Jesus convicted.
(Of what crime)
What doesn’t make sense is whatever point you are trying to make about it.
07 Jan 21
@divegeester saidNo. Same predicament as the Jewish leaders in the time of Christ who denied Christ. Now Christians follow a doctrine which denies Christ as well.
“Christians are now in the same predicament”... as Pontius Pilate ?
07 Jan 21
@divegeester saidPilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. (Matthew 27:22-24 KJV)
There is no evidence that the Sanhedrin “insistence” was what swayed Pilate. There would have been lengthy discussion with Pilate making his own mind up that the best course of action was execution. Once that decision was made then sedition would have been the crime allocated.
Pilate said Jesus was a just man and could find no fault in him. The unruly crowd insisted that he be crucified. Pilate just told them to do as they wish.
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07 Jan 21
@rajk999 saidI stand corrected on that point.
[i]Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, ...[text shortened]... lt in him. The unruly crowd insisted that he be crucified. Pilate just told them to do as they wish.
Thanks.
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07 Jan 21
3 edits
@chaney3
In reading the Bible we should grasp that behind the natural and political and religious controversies there is the spiritual warfare. Behind the apparent human conflicts there are the spiritual conflict between God and Satan.
A number of replies here touch on the purely human, natural, political, conflicts. Jesus was hated for doing what the religious power structures could not do while teaching He was the Son of God too. But behind these obvious social enmities was the spiritual warfare of Satan not wanting God to accomplish His eternal purpose to join God with man for God's kingdom.
The writing above Jesus on His cross was written in Latin to represent Roman and in Hebrew to represent Jewish religion and it in Greek to represent Greek culture. (See John 19:20)
Human Politics,
Human Religion,
Human Culture
These all had a part in opposition to Christ and His execution.
Above and behind all these merely human aspects were the spiritual warfare of Satan opposing the incarnation of God as a man for fulfilling of God's eternal purpose to be united, joined, mingled, and incorporated with humanity for humanity's salvation and the kingdom of God emerging.
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07 Jan 21
1 edit
No. Same predicament as the Jewish leaders in the time of Christ who denied Christ. Now Christians follow a doctrine which denies Christ as well.
Do you teach the Word Who was God became flesh according to John 1:1 and 14?
I don't think you can answer without foaming at the mouth with name calling.
I don't recall a unambiguous statement from you that teaches Christ is God incarnate like John 1:1,14 teaches.
I expect no clear answer here either. I expect you'll pile on false accusations and copious usage of the name Satan, displaying that you're seething with contempt.
07 Jan 21
1 edit
@sonship saidThere is no accord between us. I preach the teachings of Christ while you preach the teachings of Witness Lee, and these teachings are polar opposites. Christ teachings are from God while Lee's teachings are from Satan.
@Rajk999No. Same predicament as the Jewish leaders in the time of Christ who denied Christ. Now Christians follow a doctrine which denies Christ as well.
Do you teach the Word Who was God became flesh according to John 1:1 and 14?
I don't think you can answer without foaming at the mouth with name calling.
I don't recall a unambiguous state ...[text shortened]... alse accusations and copious usage of the name Satan, displaying that you're seething with contempt.
Jesus never spoke of a Rapture so you can go back to all my posts here over the last 15 years and you will find nothing of the sort. I only reply to people who start such topics.
Jesus never said he was God incarnate. Therefore it is of no value to anyone to say it neither does such a doctrine make one virtuous. Jesus did say the following:
- God is greater
- God is His Father
- He is the Son of God
- He came from the Father
- He receives the commandments from God and keeps them
- Disciples are required to keep these commandments just as Christ did
These are the important things for the Christian to know, to believe and to DO.
It is the work of Satan to take obscure bible words, which Jesus did not say and elevate these teachings and refer to them as critical for eternal life in the Kingdom of God. It is the work of Satan to take clear bible teachings which are critical for eternal life and reduce these to teachings which are unimportant.
You are an abject failure, much like the Jewish leaders and priests in the time of Christ.
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07 Jan 21
There is no accord between us. I preach the teachings of Christ while you preach the teachings of Witness Lee, and these teachings are polar opposites. Christ teachings are from God while Lee's teachings are from Satan.
You can hand wave about Witness Lee all you want.
So far NO CONFIRMATION that you teach what John 1:1, 14 teaches.
So far you imply that the Apostle John is teaching Satan's thoughts.
Jesus never spoke of a Rapture so you can go back to all my posts here over the last 15 years and you will find nothing of the sort. I only reply to people who start such topics.
This matter of rapture is LESS serious and LESS central to the matter of the Word being God and becoming flesh. You are DEFLECTING from a more serious matter to a lesser matter.
So stop deflecting and running away. Do you or do you not teach Christ is God incarnate as John 1:1,14 teaches? Admit you DO or you DO NOT teach the incarnation WITHOUT handwaving about a Witness Lee or Rapture as a RED HERRING.
Jesus never said he was God incarnate.
Thankyou. You have confirmed what I have been saying.
You do not teach John 1:1,14 and you insinuate that the Apostle John is an agent of the Devil.
Nothing new has been learned by me from this exchange.
You teach "another Jesus" and do so by accusing the Christians of being followers of the Devil.
Nothing has changed from about nearly a decade ago.
07 Jan 21
1 edit
@sonship saidI tell people exactly what Jesus said was necessary for eternal life in the Kingdom of God. I do not leave out anything and most of the time I quote Christ verbatim. I rarely use my own words. I dont not use home-made bibles and bibles written by churches. I do not read the writings of men. The words of Jesus is sufficient for me and it is the way to eternal life. There is no other way.
@Rajk999There is no accord between us. I preach the teachings of Christ while you preach the teachings of Witness Lee, and these teachings are polar opposites. Christ teachings are from God while Lee's teachings are from Satan.
You can hand wave about Witness Lee all you want.
So far NO CONFIRMATION that you teach what John 1:1, 14 teaches.
S ...[text shortened]... Christians of being followers of the Devil.
Nothing has changed from about nearly a decade ago.
You do the opposite. You preach a doctrine which Jesus did not preach. Worse you try to convince people that righteousness and the keeping of the commandments is not necessary. Therefore you already have one foot in hell. So good luck with that.
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07 Jan 21
@Rajk999
Any of a good number English translations of the New Testament is sufficient to expose your heresies.
Stop trying to impress anyone that some "special" version of the bible is required to plainly show your errors. You been exposed anyway. You've been exposed as dismissing the Apostle Paul, who wrote 13 or so books of the New Testament's 27 books.
This exchange? It is all rehash of cases closed with you long ago.
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07 Jan 21
@sonship saidPaul did contradict Jesus quite a bit though, didn't he?
@Rajk999
Any of a good number English translations of the New Testament is sufficient to expose your heresies.
Stop trying to impress anyone that some "special" version of the bible is required to plainly show your errors. You been exposed anyway. You've been exposed as dismissing the Apostle Paul, who wrote 13 or so books of the New Testament's 27 books.
This exchange? It is all rehash of cases closed with you long ago.
07 Jan 21
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@sonship saidIf I quote Christ, and I post exactly what he said clearly about eternal life, and you call that errors and heresy, then you are exactly like the Jews who called for the crucifiction of Christ. If Christ appeared now you would be there in the crowd calling for His death and clamoring for the release of criminals.
@Rajk999
This exchange? It is all rehash of cases closed with you long ago.
People like FMF and Ghost would be there telling you that he is a just man and they cannot see any fault in the man. But you wont hear that. You would want Jesus Christ hanged for heresy.
You are Satan.