03 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeySo I am to take it you feel as though you have never been gravely detrimental to others.
I cannot think of anything "evil" I have done.
So I am to take it you feel as though you have never been gravely detrimental to others. I am also to take it that you always feel guilty for doing something you consider immoral.
If I harm or deceive or coerce others in a morally unsound way, I generally regret it ~ as I try to live my life in a morally sound way ~ reflect on it, attempt to modify myself, and where appropriate make amends and apologize. If you want to label these attempts to act morally and to seek to ensure that my behaviour in the future is moral ~ and informed by immoral behaviour in the past ~ as "guilt", that's fine.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMFI submit that Hitler did not think he was really hurting anyone. In fact, he probably viewed himself as the surgeon removing a cancer from society.
What does this have to do with defining "evil"?
Sure, the cancer patient may hurt after surgery, but it is the only way to save the collective patient.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyI was not playing down anything. If anything, it is you who is trying to play down your "eternal torture" ideology by comparing it to torture that is not eternal.
You were rationalizing. You were trying to down play the horrific suffering these people endured by saying that they hardly felt anything.
You said: "If we had to live with the likes of people like Hitler, then torture would be eternal for everyone."
And my reply was: "Hitler's gas chamber victims died almost instantaneously. They did not suffer "eternal torture".
I did not say "that they hardly felt anything". You are making this up.
The issue is your attempt to equate a temporary torture with eternal torture.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMFYou generally regret it? Does that mean always?
[b]So I am to take it you feel as though you have never been gravely detrimental to others.
I cannot think of anything "evil" I have done.
So I am to take it you feel as though you have never been gravely detrimental to others. I am also to take it that you always feel guilty for doing something you consider immoral.
If I harm or deceive or ...[text shortened]... n the future is moral ~ and informed by immoral behaviour in the past ~ as "guilt", that's fine.[/b]
Also, who judges how detrimental you have been to others?
You?
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyWhat does this have to do with the definition of "evil"? The notions of "evil" and "morality" are about the principles that govern interactions between people, and not about what Hitler thought ~ inside his own head ~ about himself and what he was doing.
I submit that Hitler did not think he was really hurting anyone.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMFNot at all. It is you who are down playing the complexity of the situation.
[b]I was not playing down anything. If anything, it is you who is trying to play down your "eternal torture" ideology by comparing it to torture that is not eternal.
As I said before, if you allow the same folks who created the Holocaust to live forever with everyone else, then their party would simply resume forever.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMFThe definitions of morality and evil are relative.
What does this have to do with the definition of "evil"? The notions of "evil" and "morality" are about the principles that govern interactions between people, and not about what Hitler thought ~ inside his own head ~ about himself and what he was doing.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyIf I cause criminal damage or commit fraud or coerce others with violence or blackmail then I may be looking at time in an Indonesian gaol after a judge has looked at what I have done. The "judgement" on how I relate to people in the wake of non-criminal deeds takes the form of what impact my actions have on my relationships with those people.
You generally regret it? Does that mean always?
Also, who judges how detrimental you have been to others?
You?
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyThe notion that billions of people being tortured for eternity in burning agony ~ for not believing in a certain supernatural entity and for their "sins" ~ constitutes "justice" is, to my way of thinking, something on a scale that dwarfs the results or intentions of the Holocaust by an immeasurable degree.
Not at all. It is you who are down playing the complexity of the situation.
As I said before, if you allow the same folks who created the Holocaust to live forever with everyone else, then their party would simply resume forever.
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyYes. I find your "eternal torture" beliefs utterly depraved ~ by which I mean relative to all other depraved ideologies I have encountered. If you need a God figure and Hebrew mythology, plus the literature of its Christian offshoot, to keep you from being evil and immoral, then so be it. I have never denied that religionist dogma helps some people to live good lives [in terms of their interactions with others].
The definitions of morality and evil are relative.
03 Sep 14
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whodey, aside from some trademark sophistry, deployment of plain clothes straw men, deep fat frying of red herrings and economic-with-the truth "re-workings" of what I have actually said, you have not yet really addressed my offered definition of "evil" even though it was you who solicited it. I am happy to discuss it. 😀
03 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMFYour definition is important, but God will judge. Hardly lying is lying, and
I am not "evil" ~ not by any definition I know and accept. I hardly ever lie and can't remember telling anything more than social-lubricant 'white lies' for many years. I act ~ and endeavour to act ~ in a morally sound way day after day after day. My life is not "filled with evil" as you contend. I see plenty of "evil" in the world. I think I even do my tiny lit ...[text shortened]... ist Christians on this message board to call me "evil" in the course of discussions on morality.
we could go down the list if you'd like, but do we really have too? The law
of God is like a piece of glass you break it anywhere you've broken the
law, and Jesus made it even worse for those in His earthly time then before.
With Christ, even thinking thoughts that were evil was enough to be on
par with actually doing something. I assume you are as human as the next
guy and will not try to tell me how righteous your thought life is. As I told
you earlier, one lie brought all the evil we see today within our race, from
beheadings, murders, rapes, and so on. God does not play with evil, He
will condemn it forever!
Kelly