Originally posted by whodeyLike I said, if there are immoral acts going on then there are immoral acts going on. If immoral acts caused a situation then they should be called out for what they are. A single mother doing her best to raise a child is not in and of itself immoral behaviour.
So you would say that just because the average single parent home is often one in poverty and the child is often without both parents who give both a male and female role model to the child, there is no immorality present with this situation?
Originally posted by whodeyI have counselled friends against abortions on account of the effect it might have on them. I do not believe the abortion of a fetus that is not yet viable is immoral. It's a very complicated issue whodey and if you have a very straight forward approach to it, that's all well and good. I respect the "pro-life" stance. Personally I see the need for some compromise on this issue and my stance for many years is to avoid abortions if possible but I do not want the law of the land to remove the choice from pregnant women.
And lastly, you seem to lean towards abortion being immoral even though you adamantly think women should have the choice. Why is it immoral if the "fetus" is not human?
Originally posted by FMFI subscribe to because I believe it to be true, and nothing I do, or say will
You subscribe to ~ and propagate ~ an ideology in which billions of people being tortured for eternity for imagining something different from what you imagine is defined as "justice".
change that fact. Just because I dislike the idea of Hell does not mean to
me I can make it go away because I am or am not a Christian. The justice
I see is that all it took for the evil world we live now to come into being was
one lie, and the lust of a couple that thought they were going to get
something cool by ignoring God. With you, I believe you have bought into
that very same lie, told by the very same devil, to get something you think
is cool, whatever it is that now thrills you! Nothing new here except the we
now have brand new people believing God really won't do what God has
said He is going to do.
Kelly
Originally posted by whodeyI am not inclined to use the word "evil", but if I were urged to offer some kind of personal definition that allows me to discuss things with people who bandy the word about I would say it is egregiously immoral and sociopathic action that is gravely detrimental and/or damaging to others, and which stems from an abject lack or even absence of empathy and compassion..
So what is the distinction between evil and immoral?
Originally posted by FMFIf abortions are not immoral then why the propensity to avoid them?
I have counselled friends against abortions on account of the effect it might have on them. I do not believe the abortion of a fetus that is not yet viable is immoral. It's a very complicated issue whodey and if you have a very straight forward approach to it, that's all well and good. I respect the "pro-life" stance. Personally I see the need for some compromis ...[text shortened]... ions if possible but I do not want the law of the land to remove the choice from pregnant women.
Originally posted by FMFSo you have never damaged another human being?
I am not inclined to use the word "evil", but if I were urged to offer some kind of personal definition that allows me to discuss things with people who bandy the word about I would say it is egregiously immoral and sociopathic action that is gravely detrimental and/or damaging to others, and which stems from an abject lack or even absence of empathy and compassion..
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Originally posted by FMFYou say that you have done things that are "immoral"
Give me an example of what you are going on about. I think I have already answered this question, so if you're running out of ideas, why not re-frame it and see whether we can move this discussion along.
Are there any examples that comes to mind that you have a fear of ever doing again, or are you unrepentant?
Originally posted by FMFAgain, no!
I don't dispute the fact that KellyJay believes that what he believes is "true". He believes that torturing billions of people for eternity is righteous, virtuous and just. These are his beliefs. He has responsibility for having these beliefs.
God is going to judge, and that judgment is going to come down upon all
human life that has ever lived. Each one of us will stand before God and give
an account. I am not the one that is going to force everyone before God,
that would be God! What God has said He is going to do is judge us for all
the things we have done, and didn't do, we are going to give an account for
every idle word we have spoken, everything we did in secret will now be
on full display. This isn't something I have control over, they are events
that I believe are going to occur.
You are a frigging loonytoons if you believe I have the power to change
any of that, this will be God's doing not KellyJay's.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayNothing you say or do will change the fact that you subscribe to it even with the full knowledge of how despicable and ghastly the eternal torture ideology is. I don't need you to agree with my view of how depraved your beliefs are when it comes to the supposed "afterlife" for me to call it how I see it.
I subscribe to because I believe it to be true, and nothing I do, or say will
change that fact.
Originally posted by KellyJayWell said.
Again, no!
God is going to judge, and that judgment is going to come down upon all
human life that has ever lived. Each one of us will stand before God and give
an account. I am not the one that is going to force everyone before God,
that would be God! What God has said He is going to do is judge us for all
the things we have done, and didn't do, we ar ...[text shortened]... believe I have the power to change
any of that, this will be God's doing not KellyJay's.
Kelly
If there is a God, then he is the gate keeper, assuming there is a gate to keep.
Personally, I don't enjoy the notion of living an eternity with the likes of a Hitler or someone like him.
Originally posted by FMFIf we had to live with the likes of people like Hitler, then torture would be eternal for everyone.
Nothing you say or do will change the fact that you subscribe to it even with the full knowledge of how despicable and ghastly the eternal torture ideology is. I don't need you to agree with my view of how depraved your beliefs are when it comes to the supposed "afterlife" for me to call it how I see it.
Originally posted by whodeyI always try to avoid immoral acts and when my actions negatively impact people as a result of me straying from my code, I mostly regret that it has happened. If repentance means reflecting on one's behaviour and trying to avoid repeating it, and also confessing or apologizing to others, then yes I "repent". But nobody is perfect. I don't have this "fear" you keep mentioning.
You say that you have done things that are "immoral"
Are there any examples that comes to mind that you have a fear of ever doing again, or are you unrepentant?
Originally posted by FMFGo cry the sky is blue on a clear day, it will not change the color. As I said,
Nothing you say or do will change the fact that you subscribe to it even with the full knowledge of how despicable and ghastly the eternal torture ideology is. I don't need you to agree with my view of how depraved your beliefs are when it comes to the supposed "afterlife" for me to call it how I see it.
I believe God is going to judge all of creation, we will stand before God and
judge angels, and demons, and we will give an account of our own lives. If
you dislike the outcome, so what! Plenty of things happen in this life I dislike,
it does not change the fact they are done, even if I stick my head in hole
to avoid looking at them will it mean they stop happening.
Kelly