@ghost-of-a-duke saidScripture is easy to manipulate. The words of Christ is not. So if you take the teachings of Christ pertaining to what it is that enables a man to have eternal life, then you will have to agree that works trumps faith.
That's the thing about scripture, it is so contradictory and easy to manipulate. The last week I have been championing the faith camp (and backed this up with solid scripture) but could quite easily do the same this week for the works camp.
@rajk999 saidWhat words of Jesus say works trump grace? You make that up, or do you have a quote?
Scripture is easy to manipulate. The words of Christ is not. So if you take the teachings of Christ pertaining to what it is that enables a man to have eternal life, then you will have to agree that works trumps faith.
@kellyjay said'That level of faith' is as big as a mustard seed. You don't have that level of faith? So what are you banging on about then?
I don't believe what Jesus said was purely metaphorical there, but simply because I or another don't have that level of faith doesn't mean it isn't real or true.
@indonesia-phil saidIt’s the potency of what’s in the seed along with Gods will at that time for his reasons.
'That level of faith' is as big as a mustard seed. You don't have that level of faith? So what are you banging on about then?
@indonesia-phil saidWhat I said covered your question, simply because mountains are not constantly being tossed about doesn't mean the point isn't true. Something that is a huge hindrance to you can metamorphically be mountainlike, there are more things in the context that are said can and should be taken that way.
'That level of faith' is as big as a mustard seed. You don't have that level of faith? So what are you banging on about then?
@kellyjay said'Faith can move mountains' is a metaphor. It's just a metaphor.
What I said covered your question, simply because mountains are not constantly being tossed about doesn't mean the point isn't true. Something that is a huge hindrance to you can metamorphically be mountainlike, there are more things in the context that are said can and should be taken that way.
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@kellyjay saidGrace is not through faith. Jesus never said that. The Grace of God that brought salvation appeared to ALL MEN..... It has nothing to do with faith. Even those without faith received the Grace of God which is the free gift of justification by the sacrifice of Christ.
Grace is through faith, but according to you, what quote do you offer that supports works over faith?
Works is the reason why some get into the Kingdom of God
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14 KJV)
Failure to do good works is the reason why some will not enter the Kingdom of God and are cast out :
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. (Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)
Your church is preaching false doctrines and instead of reading your bible you are allowing yourself to be misled.
@rajk999 saidThis is another one of those times where you are very selective when it comes to the Bible's truth to push your point which does not line up with the rest of the Bible.
Grace is not through faith. Jesus never said that. The Grace of God that brought salvation appeared to ALL MEN..... It has nothing to do with faith. Even those without faith received the Grace of God which is the free gift of justification by the sacrifice of Christ.
Works is the reason why some get into the Kingdom of God
[i] Blessed are they that do his commandments ...[text shortened]... preaching false doctrines and instead of reading your bible you are allowing yourself to be misled.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not disagree, so you can say Jesus never said that, but that doesn't mean because an Apostle did it isn't a truth of God. Jesus said we were to believe in Him that is the work of God we are called to do.
In John 6 we see Jesus saying when asked what works are we to do.
Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
You once again are speaking out ignorance, not knowing anything about where I fellowship, saying things acting as if you know what is preached there, saying things you cannot know so suggesting you do is deceitful and slanderous.
No one is saying we are not to do good works, we are, we are to do the good works God has prepared for us to do. The difference between your doctrine and mine is when we do them it is because God has accepted us into His kingdom by the grace of God, and you are telling people to tell need to do them to be accepted into the Kingdom of God as if there are enough good works that could make someone worthy of that.
@kellyjay saidWhere have you once said to do good works ? Where have you ever promoted the teachings of Jesus Christ ... NEVER. You are a product of another crooked church promoting mouth worship and dead faith.
This is another one of those times where you are very selective when it comes to the Bible's truth to push your point which does not line up with the rest of the Bible.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not ...[text shortened]... ed into the Kingdom of God as if there are enough good works that could make someone worthy of that.
@rajk999 saidIt wouldn't take much to see the words I've just quoted over and over again, we are called to do good works God has prepared for us to do.
Where have you once said to do good works ? Where have you ever promoted the teachings of Jesus Christ ... NEVER. You are a product of another crooked church promoting mouth worship and dead faith.
No, getting back to your statement about how works trump faith, show me the words of Jesus that say that, or did you suggest Jesus said something He did not?
@kellyjay saidGo in peace KJ and stop spreading your dead UnChristlike doctrine. You are leading the gullible astray.
It wouldn't take much to see the words I've just quoted over and over again, we are called to do good works God has prepared for us to do.
No, getting back to your statement about how works trump faith, show me the words of Jesus that say that, or did you suggest Jesus said something He did not?