The futile "faith vs. works" debate

@rajk999 said
Communication is pointless if the words used have different meaning.

So why do you change things that are written to mean other things?

@kellyjay said
So why do you change things that are written to mean other things?

Because Jesus does not preach mouth worship. Jesus preached good works and righteousness as the way to the Kingdom of God. Mouth worshipers are condemned by Him on many occasions. So when you quote where Jesus promotes mouth professions of faith, that tells me your interpretation and understanding of what is required of us is off.

@rajk999 said
Because Jesus does not preach mouth worship. Jesus preached good works and righteousness as the way to the Kingdom of God. Mouth worshipers are condemned by Him on many occasions. So when you quote where Jesus promotes mouth professions of faith, that tells me your interpretation and understanding of what is required of us is off.

You are the only one here I have seen talk about mouth worship. I agree Jesus did preach good works, and righteousness is the way to the Kingdom of God, but Jesus is the Way. Your perversion of twisting meaning of words in scripture and what people say doesn't alter you are forced to ignore some scripture and only quote a small number of them to make it sound like you are rightly dividing the Word of God. You would not be able to maintain your rants if you actually stopped changing the meaning of words, twist things people say, twist scripture to mean things not being said, and having to take all of the Bible into account instead of just a few pet text.

@rajk999 said
Because Jesus does not preach mouth worship. Jesus preached good works and righteousness as the way to the Kingdom of God. Mouth worshipers are condemned by Him on many occasions. So when you quote where Jesus promotes mouth professions of faith, that tells me your interpretation and understanding of what is required of us is off.

You change text to suit you, that should tell you that the text isn't saying what you want. If it did you wouldn't have to change it. You are attempting to force the Bible to suit your doctrine by having to change it, what you should do is change your doctrine to what it does say.

@kellyjay said
You are the only one here I have seen talk about mouth worship. I agree Jesus did preach good works, and righteousness is the way to the Kingdom of God, but Jesus is the Way. Your perversion of twisting meaning of words in scripture and what people say doesn't alter you are forced to ignore some scripture and only quote a small number of them to make it sound like you are ri ...[text shortened]... ngs not being said, and having to take all of the Bible into account instead of just a few pet text.

Well I dont expect you to call your church doctrine mouth worship but it is. The Pharisees did not call their doctrine, and conduct mouth worship but Jesus did. The priest and Levite in the story of the Good Samaritan would not think that they practiced mouth worship but they did.

Im not rehashing any scripture with you. I get what Jesus preached. You seem to have a problem so you deal with that.

@rajk999 said
Well I dont expect you to call your church doctrine mouth worship but it is. The Pharisees did not call their doctrine, and conduct mouth worship but Jesus did. The priest and Levite in the story of the Good Samaritan would not think that they practiced mouth worship but they did.

Im not rehashing any scripture with you. I get what Jesus preached. You seem to have a problem so you deal with that.

Mouth worship is your term simply used to belittle those you disagree with. Since it is your term you can make it mean whatever you want. It isn't scripture its rajk999 speak nothing more. You can make that term mouth worship mean anything you want its your made up term. If you are going to actually correct people so that they can see their errors scripturally why don't you just try sticking to scripture. If you do that instead insulting people with that pathetic phrase of yours, you may actually do some good, and for someone who claims that is the goal it should be something you should work on.

1 John 3:17
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

@rajk999 said
Yep .. the church has twisted the teachings of Paul.

It really is remarkable how far Christianity has drifted from the gospel preached by Jesus. So far that the underlying concepts that serve as the foundation for Christianity are almost the antithesis of what Jesus preached. It is so self-serving. Even worse, as time passes, it keeps becoming increasingly self-serving.

Based on his posts, it's evident that BDP doesn't understand the problem domain. When I read the OP I had hoped that maybe he meant it tongue-in-cheek, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Unfortunately he doesn't seem too interested in understanding it either. Or in engaging in a meaningful discussion about it for that matter.

@thinkofone said
Note that bdP still refuses to engage.

When Jesus said that he was sent by God, was he correct?

@divegeester said
When Jesus said that he was sent by God, was he correct?

Evidently DG is still unable to wrap his mind around the difference between his red herring and engaging on the topic at hand.

@thinkofone said
Evidently DG is still unable to wrap his mind around the difference between his red herring and engaging on the topic at hand.

Evidently you are the only who thinks that load of baloney, when every single other contributor to this forum thinks you are exactly as I call you ~ a cowardly fraud.

I’ll be asking you the question again soon...

@divegeester said
Evidently you are the only who thinks that load of baloney, when every single other contributor to this forum thinks you are exactly as I call you ~ a cowardly fraud.

I’ll be asking you the question again soon...

Following is the topic of discussion. It's the title of the thread:
"The futile "faith vs. works" debate"

Given that, how exactly is your question not a red herring? Go ahead. Make your best case.

@thinkofone said
Following is the topic of discussion. It's the title of the thread:
"The futile "faith vs. works" debate"

Given that, how exactly is your question not a red herring? Go ahead. Make your best case.

Simple, I’m replying to a comment you made in this thread:

@thinkofone said
Note that bdP still refuses to engage.

@divegeeter responded
When Jesus said that he was sent by God, was he correct?

You refuse to “engage” on this question wether it is within this or other threads, or even within a thread I specifically started about it. I’ll start another one about if you like...

You’re being hypocritical to BDP.

@divegeester said
Simple, I’m replying to a comment you made in this thread:

@thinkofone said
Note that bdP still refuses to engage.

@divegeeter responded
When Jesus said that he was sent by God, was he correct?

You refuse to “engage” on this question wether it is within this or other threads, or even within a thread I specifically started about it. I’ll start another one about if you like...

You’re being hypocritical to BDP.

lol. That's your best case? It doesn't even address the issue. It doesn't make logical sense. Setting that aside, you seriously also don't understand that the comment you took out of context is referring to BDP's refusal to engage on the topic of this thread?

You're really something DG.

@thinkofone said
It really is remarkable how far Christianity has drifted from the gospel preached by Jesus. So far that the underlying concepts that serve as the foundation for Christianity are almost the antithesis of what Jesus preached. It is so self-serving. Even worse, as time passes, it keeps becoming increasingly self-serving.

Based on his posts, it's evident that BDP doesn't u ...[text shortened]... sted in understanding it either. Or in engaging in a meaningful discussion about it for that matter.

God is working on justifying His church, His bride to be. It isn't the Bride of Christ that as moved away from Jesus, its you as you attack it. Your Jesus, is He alive today? What does your faith say?

@bigdoggproblem said
I actually agree that good works ought to be done out of a primary motivation to help the other person.

Gamesmanship is selfish.

So what motivates people?

According to Machiavelli it is love and fear, and decided that fear was the best motivator.

I disagree. Why leave out love? The healthy approach to God is love. What do we do for someone we love? We try to please them. They are the focus and despite being put out on occasion, we are happy to do so if it pleases the one we love. As Christians, we help those in need because we know it pleases the God we love, just like trying to please another loves one by maybe washing the dishes for them. I've found that God can also give you a heart for people your are helping.

As for fear, God says that the beginning of wisdom is the fear of evil and the subsequent bad things that can happen to you for engaging in such activity. The fear really is sticking your head in a fan by sinning rather than fearing God will throw a fan at your head himself.

I have found that this is the correct mind set to have as a person of faith. All others are very unhealthy.