Spirituality
08 Feb 15
09 Feb 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAs I have said before, I see Genesis one like a title for the chapter. It gives a general statement of what the Chapter is about. Genesis 1:2 begins adding details in chronological order all the way to Genesis 1:31 the end of the sixth day. I would have also include Genesis 2:1-3 which finishes out the week with God resting from His work on the seventh day as part of Chapter one.
Then would you be willing to objectively consider revisiting the prehistoric events which occurred between
Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? If no, I respect your decision. If yes, let's examine these passages in detail.
1) Your understanding of precisely what is revealed in Genesis 1:1?
09 Feb 15
Originally posted by RJHindsIs this reply a yes or no? I have no desire whatever to encroach on negative volition with unbelievers or believers in Christ. The only question you have to ask yourself is "Do I already possess an accurate understanding of Genesis 1:1 [Gap] 1:2".
As I have said before, I see Genesis one like a title for the chapter. It gives a general statement of what the Chapter is about. Genesis 1:2 begins adding details in chronological order all the way to Genesis 1:31 the end of the sixth day. I would have also include Genesis 2:1-3 which finishes out the week with God resting from His work on the seventh day as part of Chapter one.
09 Feb 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipGenesis 3 is concerned with the temptation of mankind on the physical earth. This is not a scene from the the spiritual heaven where God and His spirit creatures dwell, including the Anointed Cherub.Lucifer, the Anointed Cherub, was part of the spiritual creation in the spiritual heaven. The iniquity that was found in Him [sic] probably refers to when he sinned by tempting Eve to disobey God. - RJHinds
This belief suggests that the first sin Lucifer committed was the tempting of Eve. So according to your view the fulfillment of Go ...[text shortened]... nk you can just gloss over such matters with another link to a YouTube Creation Science lecture.
God patterned the the physical Garden of Eden on earth to a spiritual one that was in heaven. So all you are referring to about the Anointed Cherub are not physical and would not be in Chapter three which is a scene on the physical earth.
You must not forget that Ezekiel is a prophet and is relating prophetic visions, so you must not look at it as being all literally physical. Remember that God's throne is in the third heaven (the spiritual heaven) and Lucifer wishes to be like God and have his own throne in heaven.
Ezekiel's prophetic vision mixes physical aspects with spiritual in relating to the physical King of Tyre and the spiritual Anointed Cherub. God is indirectly addressing the Anointed Cherub Lucifer through this prophecy of the fall of the King of Tyre. But here the unfallen state of Lucifer is seen.
Isaiah 14 presents the fall of Lucifer in mixing the fall of the physical King of Babylon with the description of the eventual fall of Satan the devil as in Revelation 20.
09 Feb 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyNo. There is no gap. 😏
Is this reply a yes or no? I have no desire whatever to encroach on negative volition with unbelievers or believers in Christ. The only question you have to ask yourself is "Do I already possess an accurate understanding of Genesis 1:1 [Gap] 1:2".
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
09 Feb 15
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsOriginally posted by RJHinds
No. There is no gap. 😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
No. There is no gap. 😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The disciples were commanded in Matthew 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet." Even so we in the Church Age are to walk away from negative volition.
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09 Feb 15
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
Genesis 3 is concerned with the temptation of mankind on the physical earth. This is not a scene from the the spiritual heaven where God and His spirit creatures dwell, including the Anointed Cherub.
I understand that.
The things spoken of in isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are backround history to Satan's presence in the garden which man was suppose to guard. They are not concurrent with but preceding to the events of Genesis 3.
Let's not lose sight of the issue. Adam and Eve most assuredly, were not the first beings deceived by Satan. Nor was the unrighteousness of his temptation with lies the FIRST of his offenses.
Making the events of his fall in Isaiah and Ezekiel events after his seducing of Adam and Eve, makes less sense.
The angels were more powerful and likely more intelligent. If not God would not say that He made man "a little LOWER than the angels" . So I don't believe that higher angels witnessed the deception and tragedy of Adam and Eve's disobedience and subsequently followed the human lead to also follow Satan.
It happened the other way around.
God patterned the the physical Garden of Eden on earth to a spiritual one that was in heaven. So all you are referring to about the Anointed Cherub are not physical and would not be in Chapter three which is a scene on the physical earth.
The physics or physicality of the matter I will not say overmuch about. The TIME sequence is the heavenly rebellion FIRST. They were not concurrent. I do not believe the heavenly rebellion was a slapstick like accelerated matter that occurred within six days.
I do not believe the heavenly rebellion comes AFTER the serpent is seen in Genesis 3 or in any way concurrent with the events of Genesis 3. And I do not imagine a gap of time needed between the end of the sixth day and chapter 3 in which to insert the fall of the Daystar.
The interval or gap in which the creation, anointing, and fall of this Daystar is before the earth was waste and void. And now we are just repeating to each other.
One economy ran its course and FAILED. And a new economy God initiated. They were not concurrent so that the Daystar had his legitimate throne while God appoints man as his deputy authority over His creation.
When the new deputy authority made of dust arrives, the old failed and discorded deputy authority is already seething with resentment, scheming, revenge, and adversarial motives to wreck all God has planned with this "NEW" creature. This new puny dusty creature man, though, will be the means by which Satan finally goes to the eternal damnation prepared for the devil and his angels.
Man was created, in a real sense, as God's executioner. And this I will develop in another post. To GUARD the garden implies a lot.
You must not forget that Ezekiel is a prophet and is relating prophetic visions,
I am not sure why you think I am "forgetting" that these are prophetic visions. They, as I said, included instances of what we might call "the prophetic past."
The "LAMENTATION" is of the tragic fall of one creature who was once the highest and wisest, most beautiful and wisest. Though now we do not lament Satan there was conceivably a time when such a great FALL from dignity was lamentable.
so you must not look at it as being all literally physical. Remember that God's throne is in the third heaven (the spiritual heaven) and Lucifer wishes to be like God and have his own throne in heaven.
What is communicated to us is that -
1.) this enemy, this serpent is ALSO a creation of God.
2.) this enemy, talks. But more amazing then his speaking (for no animals speak as far as we know) are the things being spoken.
In other words, it is less important that a non-human creature is found talking then that WHAT is being SAID is so momentous. And that is to cause man to question God's heart, God's motive, and God's truthfulness.
The physicality of the story may cause us to speculate on some unknowns. What is communicated is that a creation, more subtle, was there opposing God and man. The details of his origin can wait until latter in the revelation of Scripture.
Adam failed to GUARD. And the fall of mankind and his dominion commenced. That is the point to grasp immediately.
What has the highest priority with you is that there be no million years or no billion years. Fine. What takes higher priority to me is that the enemy of Christ and the church be exposed as to his tactics, his motives, his ancient history.
In my opinion your presentation obscures this because you count the most destructive thing ever to assault the Christian church is Darwin.
Darwin and the obscuring of the creation of man, blurring him with lower animals, is indeed a problem. But not to see the reason for man's creation to coordinate to destroy this ancient foe of God, is even more important.
"Let them have dominion over ..." if read between the lines and in the light of the rest of the Bible signals the execution of God's enemy.
If men do not know this, Satan knew it and struck preemptively.
What do you think Adam would have said if instead he went back to God and said - " God, my Creator, what in the world is this lying subtle serpent doing here in your Eden? Please immediately remove this enemy."
Satan, at Adam's petition, would have gone to his eternal punishment "prepared for the devil and his angels".
Ezekiel's prophetic vision mixes physical aspects with spiritual in relating to the physical King of Tyre and the spiritual Anointed Cherub. God is indirectly addressing the Anointed Cherub Lucifer through this prophecy of the fall of the King of Tyre. But here the unfallen state of Lucifer is seen.
Of course BEHIND every earthly despot lurks the ORIGINAL despot Satan. G.H. Pember knew history very well. He says that a prince of Tyre was known in history but no king of Tyre was known.
Following your logic is difficult and rather convoluted. I suppose you are still saying that this passage refers to the temptation of Eve from the Devil -
"You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found you." (v.15)
Well, we are told that this being "corrupted [his] wisdom". Now Genesis 3 said that this serpent was MORE SUBTLE. It does not say that he was MORE WISE. I submit then that by this time in Genesis 3, his wisdom had already been corrupted to be SUBTLETY.
He was more subtle because the perfect wisdom with which he was created long before had long sense been corrupted.
PS you do not have to give me your smug moniker and a HahleluJah to signal you are confident in what you teach. I know that already without these little gimmicks.
09 Feb 15
3 edits
Originally posted by sonshipEzekiel 26 begins with a prophecy of God's judgment on Tyre. At the time of Ezekiel, Tyre was on the coast of Phoenicia at the shore of the mediterranean sea. As the prophecy predicted, Nebuchadnezzar conquered and destroyed the city by casting many of its ruins into the sea. Some of the people from tyre escaped to an island off the coast and built a new city. About 300 years later, Alexander the Great conquered the Island city by making a causeway from the remainder of the ruins of the old Tyre.Genesis 3 is concerned with the temptation of mankind on the physical earth. This is not a scene from the the spiritual heaven where God and His spirit creatures dwell, including the Anointed Cherub.
I understand that.
The things spoken of in [b]isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are backround history to Satan's presence in the gard ...[text shortened]... o signal you are confident in what you teach. I know that already without these little gimmicks.[/b]
Ezekiel 27 is a lament over the destruction of the old city of Tyre. Ezekial 28:1-10 is a rebuke of the King of Tyre:
"Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Because your heart is lifted up And you have said, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods In the heart of the seas'; Yet you are a man and not God, Although you make your heart like the heart of God--
(Ezekiel 28:3 NASB)
It is from Ezekiel 28:11 to 28:19 that God uses the King of Tyre to indirectly rebuke the anointed Cherub Lucifer. The final fate of Lucifer as Satan the devil is revealed in Revelation 20.
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:1-15 NKJV)
Obviously this has not happened yet. And neither has this happened to Satan:
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
(Ezekiel 28:17-18 NASB)
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10 Feb 15
8 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
Ezekiel 26 begins with a prophecy of God's judgment on Tyre. At the time of Ezekiel, Tyre was on the coast of Phoenicia at the shore of the mediterranean sea. As the prophecy predicted, Nebuchadnezzar conquered and destroyed the city by casting many of its ruins into the sea. Some of the people from tyre escaped to an island off the coast and built a new city. About 300 years later, Alexander the Great conquered the Island city by making a causeway from the remainder of the ruins of the old Tyre.
No one I know suggests that the entire three chapters 26 - 28 are about Lucifer. So this information does not effect the revelation of a superhuman figure spoken to in 28:12 - 17.
By expanding the section of interest to include all other encompassing subjects the clear prophetic past of Satan's origin is not obscured in at least 28:12-17. This section begins as a distinct lamentation -
Ezek 28:12 - "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre ..."
Ezekiel 27 is a lament over the destruction of the old city of Tyre. Ezekial 28:1-10 is a rebuke of the King of Tyre:
"Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Because your heart is lifted up And you have said, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods In the heart of the seas'; Yet you are a man and not God, Although you make your heart like the heart of God--
That is all well and good. But from verse 12 we have a distinct section commencing with God's word for the son of man to take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre. Other utterances are appropriate to any human ruler. The utterances commencing from 28:12 do not match any earthly ruler.
No human being since Adam was perfect in his or her ways from the day created (vs. 15). And to speak of a Gentile pagan king as the Anointed Cherub covering in Eden is not appropriate a description of the a dignitary of pagan Tyre.
So just as Jesus rebuked Peter but was speaking to Satan behind the scene in the New Testament - IE.
"But He turned and said to PETER, Get behind Me, SATAN! You are a stumbling block to Me ... " (Matt. 16:23)
So in the Old Testament God seems to speak to an earthly figure but actually is addressing the Devil behind the scene. We thank God for this drawing back of the curtain on Lucifer's past.
YEC very much often obscures and loses the clear exposure of the church's arch enemy.
(Ezekiel 28:3 NASB)
It is from Ezekiel 28:11 to 28:19 that God uses the King of Tyre to indirectly rebuke the anointed Cherub Lucifer. The final fate of Lucifer as Satan the devil is revealed in Revelation 20.
It is true that Satan's end is seen ultimately in Revelation 20. There is no dispute here about that.
But verse 11 ENDS the section spoken to the PRINCE of Tyre. And the next verse 12 commences a new lamentation about the KING of Tyre. Here are the three verses 10,11 and 12 together so you can see the closing of one prophecy and the beginning of a new one -
Verse 10 - You will die the death of the uncircumcised by the hand of stangers, for I have spoken, declares the Lord Jehovah.
Verse 11 - Moreover the word of Jehovah came to me, saying,
Verse 12 - Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord Jehovah, O you who sealed up perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
So verse 12 is the beginning of a whole new prophecy.
Now I appreciate your quoting of Revelaton 20. This certainly exposes Satan's END. But you are obscuring his BEGINNINGS. The word of God exposes BOTH ends of the matter.
So your quotation of Revelation 20 is noted and there is no argument here about its contents.
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, ... ... ... thousand years;
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed ... ... etc.
Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from ... etc. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
etc. etc.
(Revelation 20:1-15 NKJV)
Obviously this has not happened yet.
No one has said that is not obvious. Have they? I didn't.
And neither has this happened to Satan:
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
You must be kidding.
Satan's heart has NOT YET BEEN LIFTED UP?
No RJHinds we are not WAITING for Satan's heart to YET be lifted up. It was lifted up already for the serpent to say to Eve -
"Did God really say, You shall not eat of any tree of the garden ?" (Gen.3:1).
Satan's heart has been lifted up since man existed and long before man existed.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
(Ezekiel 28:17-18 NASB)
To say that we have yet to wait for the Devil to become proud or lifted up in heart is totally ridiculous. I think Satan is probably laughing at any Bible teacher trying to pass on such an erroneous teaching. The Apostle Paul clearly tells us that the novice elder may have his heart lifted up AS Satan ALREADY had his lifted up -
"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the Devil. " (1 Timothy 3:6)
Now it has not escaped our notice that verses 17 and 18 seem applicable to a human figure - " ... I reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all those who look at you." .
This may be including the fate of the final Antichrist who will be virtually Satan totally taking over a man. Pember writes -
"With the latter part of the prophecy, referring as it does to the joint downfall of Satan and Antichrist, we have at present no concern, since we are just now occupied not with the future but the past."
The prophecy is amply occupied with the past because at no time was the future Antichrist in Eden. Yet fully representing Satan, Antichrist may be the one spoken of in verse 17.
10 Feb 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipEither you misunderstood my statement or you were trying to set up a strawman. So let me repeat and explain. After I posted Revelation 20, I mentioned that that had not happened to Satan yet. Then referring to the bolded portion of the following quote from Ezekial 28 I wrote:
[quote] Ezekiel 26 begins with a prophecy of God's judgment on Tyre. At the time of Ezekiel, Tyre was on the coast of Phoenicia at the shore of the mediterranean sea. As the prophecy predicted, Nebuchadnezzar conquered and destroyed the city by casting many of its ruins into the sea. Some of the people from tyre escaped to an island off the coast and built a ...[text shortened]... tichrist in Eden. Yet fully representing Satan, Antichrist may be the one spoken of in verse 17.
And neither has this happened to Satan:
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
(Ezekiel 28:17-18 NASB)
I thought it would be obvious to anyone that I was not referring to the first two lines which where not in bold text. But you quoted those two lines separately and replied:
You must be kidding.
Satan's heart has NOT YET BEEN LIFTED UP?
Surely you can't be that stupid to believe I was referring to those two lines that I did NOT put in bold text.
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10 Feb 15
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsThe STUPIDITY was yours to include the sentence in your quotation of the "this" which had not happened yet.
Obviously this has not happened yet. And neither has this happened to Satan:
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
Originally posted by sonship...walking amidst the "stones of fire"Lucifer, the Anointed Cherub, was part of the spiritual creation in the spiritual heaven. The iniquity that was found in Him [sic] probably refers to when he sinned by tempting Eve to disobey God. - RJHinds
This belief suggests that the first sin Lucifer committed was the tempting of Eve. So according to your view the fulfillment of Go ...[text shortened]... nk you can just gloss over such matters with another link to a YouTube Creation Science lecture.
What are the "stones of fire"? I recall reading a passage about how Satan was able to freely roam about, which I assume means anywhere in the universe. So could "stones of fire" mean stars? Or might this only have something to do with the king (or prince, leader) of Tyre... if so, then what would "stones of fire" mean to him?
10 Feb 15
2 edits
Originally posted by sonship[/b]I was quoting verse 17-18 of Ezekiel 28 and those two lines were part of that verse.
The STUPIDITY was yours to include the sentence in your quotation of the "this" which had not happened yet.
Obviously this has not happened yet. And neither has this happened to Satan:
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
[b] I cast you to the ground;
I put you ...[text shortened]... And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
verse 17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
Verse 18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
If I had deleted those two lines you probably would have objected too. There is a reason for putting text in bold. You need to learn that. I hope I can educate you and I apologize for the stupid remark.
10 Feb 15
4 edits
Ezekiel 28:13 in the King James Version:
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
Ezekiel 28:13 in the Greek Septuagint Version:
Thou wast in the delight (luxury) of the paradise of God;
Ezekiel 28:13 in the Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God:
I find it interesting that Jesus mentioned "paradise" to the thief on the cross.
Luke 23:43 in the King James Version:
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Jesus also mentions the tree of life in "the paradise of God" in the Revelation.
Revelation 2:7 in the King James Version
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
The apostle Paul tells of a "paradise" in the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 in the King James Version:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
In Revelation 22 John sees a vision of a river of the water of life coming from the throne of God and the Lamb and there is the tree of life.
I believe the above verses give much support for the fact that Ezekiel was not writing about a physical garden paradise on earth, but really the one in heaven that Jesus, Paul and John referred to.
However, I am not disputing that Lucifer did possess the physical body of the Serpent dragon as Satan in the garden on earth in order to tempt Eve.
10 Feb 15
Originally posted by RJHindsSo you have succeeded in turning a post on evolution into a bible fest.
Ezekiel 28:13 in the King James Version:
[b]Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
Ezekiel 28:13 in the Greek Septuagint Version:
Thou wast in the delight (luxury) of the paradise of God;
Ezekiel 28:13 in the Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God:
I find it interesting that Jesus mentioned "para ...[text shortened]... s the physical body of the Serpent dragon as Satan in the garden on earth in order to tempt Eve.[/b]
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10 Feb 15
4 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
I was quoting verse 17-18 of Ezekiel 28 and those two lines were part of that verse.
verse 17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
[b]I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
Verse 18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of y ...[text shortened]... in bold. You need to learn that. I hope I can educate you and I apologize for the stupid remark.
If I had deleted those two lines you probably would have objected too. There is a reason for putting text in bold. You need to learn that. I hope I can educate you and I apologize for the stupid remark.
I withdraw my retort on stupidity.
And also I have not yet found the aggressive evolution things about dinos comming off the ark. So until I can substatiate that, I retract the comment, as I promised.
Okay, let's just deal with the intended portion you wanted to draw my attention to -
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
Verse 18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
In that case my comment would be, as stated -
Now it has not escaped our notice that verses 17 and 18 seem applicable to a human figure - " ... I reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all those who look at you." .
This may be including the fate of the final Antichrist who will be virtually Satan totally taking over a man. Pember writes -
"With the latter part of the prophecy, referring as it does to the joint downfall of Satan and Antichrist, we have at present no concern, since we are just now occupied not with the future but the past."
The prophecy is amply occupied with the past because at no time was the future Antichrist in Eden. Yet fully representing Satan, Antichrist may be the one spoken of in verse 17.