Spirituality
08 Feb 15
09 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouseHave you got a precise date for that? The Christians have precise dates for all the stories in the Bible. As a handwaving statement they came out of Egypt around 1,500 BC and were there 400 odd years, so you're looking at around 2,000 BC for the Joseph story. I'm sure one of them can provide us with a more accurate date than my semi-educated guessing. If you know the date for the Egyptian myth then we can see which is the older source. The problem is it doesn't particularly prove anything ontologically. It's one of those things that either side can rationalize to fit their narrative. Here's three lines of speculation about it that people could take depending on their attitude to the literal truth of the Bible:
The Egyptian myth is at least a thousand years older than Jo.
If the Genesis story is literally true then it wouldn't be surprising they had the same myth. Although my opinion of that possibility is that if the story is literally true then I am the Queen of Sheba.
Alternative number two is that God exists and wants everyone to include that creation story in their mythology for ineffable reasons of his own. Again it's clearly no surprise that the Egyptians independently had the same myth. There's no reason to believe that God wouldn't send culturally relevant messengers to each civilization.
Possibility three is that it is independent of God and either a fairly common myth that the Hebrews had copied off the Egyptians who had a huge influence over Canaan or that the Hebrew priest caste picked up when they were in exile in Babylon and insisted on including in the Bible.
09 Mar 15
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThe Eqyptians had several variations of their creation myths. There is one that is close to the one in Genesis, but it is still a distortion and is not as detailed and is less credible.
Have you got a precise date for that? The Christians have precise dates for all the stories in the Bible. As a handwaving statement they came out of Egypt around 1,500 BC and were there 400 odd years, so you're looking at around 2,000 BC for the Joseph story. I'm sure one of them can provide us with a more accurate date than my semi-educated guessing. ...[text shortened]... riest caste picked up when they were in exile in Babylon and insisted on including in the Bible.
09 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouseAgain, you know what is important to a real God why? Exactly why isn't
A real god would have foreseen the issues resulting from having so many religions at each other's throats, killing millions in the name of these gods.
So either it doesn't care, let the fighting commence, it is really entertaining or the whole thing was just made up by men.
it possible that we are getting the not as bad version now? How would you
know? There are a few that are going to be saved, and given the great
gift of our own will that may be the very best that could happen for all we
know!
I don't think we have come up with a good solution of God knowing what
is going to happen while at the same time allowing others to act as they
will. The fact that we can act as we will would if honored by God put God
in a position of restraint. So there is fighting, it is us fighting us, it is us
stealing from us, us robbing from us, us murdering us. I think we are
not very entertaining, except where it is us giving grace, mercy, and when
we show love to one another. The evil we do is when we leave caring for
God and each other and simply act on what we want when we want.
13 Mar 15
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you seriously think a god capable of literally THINKING in an entire universe which undoubtedly contains billions of other life forms in said universe, you seriously think this god would somehow be JEALOUS of humans, one of the tiny creatures it allegedly created? Like I am going to have a colony of ants and I get so ticked off at this ONE ant, I pull off its legs because I am SO jealous of it because it didn't worship me?
Again, you know what is important to a real God why? Exactly why isn't
it possible that we are getting the not as bad version now? How would you
know? There are a few that are going to be saved, and given the great
gift of our own will that may be the very best that could happen for all we
know!
I don't think we have come up with a good solution of G ...[text shortened]... do is when we leave caring for
God and each other and simply act on what we want when we want.
How gullible do you have to be to swallow such nonsense? Oh wait, I forgot, you ALREADY swallowed such nonsense and a lot more.
I mean, how gullible would you have to be for a person who can think critically for him or herself to fall for such BS?
YOU are the one accepting that this deity has human characteristics.
I suppose on some planet out there where there are beings somewhat like us, maybe intelligent crabs or birds but have managed to make a technical civilization like us, your god would be jealous of THEM too?
13 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouseYou didn't answer any questions that were asked of you. Is that because you have never been able to think for yourself?
Do you seriously think a god capable of literally THINKING in an entire universe which undoubtedly contains billions of other life forms in said universe, you seriously think this god would somehow be JEALOUS of humans, one of the tiny creatures it allegedly created? Like I am going to have a colony of ants and I get so ticked off at this ONE ant, I pull of ...[text shortened]... ut have managed to make a technical civilization like us, your god would be jealous of THEM too?
13 Mar 15
Originally posted by KellyJayBecause I can actually think for myself. If there is this omniscient god around, one would assume it would also be intelligent and therefore capable of also thinking things through for ITSELF also.
"A truly omniscient god intent on bringing religion to a world, you know a WHOLE world, would have in its power the ability to speak to every being on the planet at the same time."
So what?
You seem to be saying if God didn't act the way I thought He would then
He isn't real. What makes you the standard that God must meet?
So you tell me why, given verses like this:
Jeremiah 1:5 ESV / 51
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
that you would not come to the conclusion this deity knows EVERYTHING that happens on Earth and every other planet and star and cloud in the universe and therefore knew well in advance A&E would fail their so-called and unneeded test and Abraham would pass his test.
So you tell ME why an intelligent god like you think you worship, would set up things like that KNOWING in advance that most folk would fail?
14 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouseJealous of humans no, jealous for them yes.
Do you seriously think a god capable of literally THINKING in an entire universe which undoubtedly contains billions of other life forms in said universe, you seriously think this god would somehow be JEALOUS of humans, one of the tiny creatures it allegedly created? Like I am going to have a colony of ants and I get so ticked off at this ONE ant, I pull of ...[text shortened]... ut have managed to make a technical civilization like us, your god would be jealous of THEM too?
14 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouseHonest answer I don't know why, my guess is that only with an honest
Because I can actually think for myself. If there is this omniscient god around, one would assume it would also be intelligent and therefore capable of also thinking things through for ITSELF also.
So you tell me why, given verses like this:
Jeremiah 1:5 ESV / 51
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated ...[text shortened]... u think you worship, would set up things like that KNOWING in advance that most folk would fail?
effort where failure is an option do you get what He wants in the end.
14 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouse"YOU are the one accepting that this deity has human characteristics. "
Do you seriously think a god capable of literally THINKING in an entire universe which undoubtedly contains billions of other life forms in said universe, you seriously think this god would somehow be JEALOUS of humans, one of the tiny creatures it allegedly created? Like I am going to have a colony of ants and I get so ticked off at this ONE ant, I pull of ...[text shortened]... ut have managed to make a technical civilization like us, your god would be jealous of THEM too?
Exactly how else would I or could I relate to him, if God had Zippeordous
characteristics?
14 Mar 15
Originally posted by KellyJaySo you don't think verses like 'I am a jealous god' indicates human characteristics? Or verses saying its ok to have slaves? That would be a god admitting it is ok for there to be a strict layering of humanity. Not a god for me. You can have it all to yourself. Leave me out of it. I want freedom FROM religion, not freedom OF religion. I coined that phrase, I thought, only to find there is actually an organization out there with that exact wording! I joined up, naturally. In my opinion, till we bust the shackle of religions mankind will be forced into permanent mental childhood.
"YOU are the one accepting that this deity has human characteristics. "
Exactly how else would I or could I relate to him, if God had Zippeordous
characteristics?
14 Mar 15
Originally posted by DeepThoughtPossibility four is that the Bible is literally true and God isn't a liar.
Have you got a precise date for that? The Christians have precise dates for all the stories in the Bible. As a handwaving statement they came out of Egypt around 1,500 BC and were there 400 odd years, so you're looking at around 2,000 BC for the Joseph story. I'm sure one of them can provide us with a more accurate date than my semi-educated guessing. ...[text shortened]... riest caste picked up when they were in exile in Babylon and insisted on including in the Bible.
21 Mar 15
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwSo that is your spin on the words 'I am a jealous god'. Show me where it says it is jealous for humans not jealous of humans. And, just what does 'jealous FOR humans' mean anyway? Jealous is jealous no matter what spin you put on it.
I keep telling sonhouse that, but he insists on retaining the myopic idea that God is jealous of humans probably for no other reason than that it supports his man made narrative that man invented God.
It is a human attribute given to this made up deity in their clever ploy to make a deity more acceptable to humans.
Of COURSE they would not give a deity the attributes of an elephant for instance but to make them more acceptable to humans.
The amazing thing to me is the billions of people who never in their entire lives use critical thinking about their religion whatever that is. Hindu, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Janes, Bahai, whatever, they ALL just put out writings and then manage to snag millions upon millions of converts which is the main objective of these religions, building a political empire.
If you don't think Christianity is an empire, take a look at the life of a normal person from 600 odd years ago in Rome or other places where Christianity has captured the hearts of the duped.
24 Mar 15
Originally posted by sonhouseI believe it means God is jealous of humans making other gods to worship. God wants his master creation to be devoted to Him only. It is like a husband being jealous of his beautiful bride at the time of marriage, if you can look back and remember such a time.
So that is your spin on the words 'I am a jealous god'. Show me where it says it is jealous for humans not jealous of humans. And, just what does 'jealous FOR humans' mean anyway? Jealous is jealous no matter what spin you put on it.
It is a human attribute given to this made up deity in their clever ploy to make a deity more acceptable to humans.
Of C ...[text shortened]... 0 odd years ago in Rome or other places where Christianity has captured the hearts of the duped.