The Garden of Eden

Originally posted by lemon lime
Before the big bang theory became accepted as fact, atheists would routinely point to the first three words of Genesis and claim it was wrong, because most scientists were saying the universe had no beginning. Do you also think the Genesis account is wrong... do you believe our universe has always existed, and had no beginning?

Genesis perhaps works as a metaphor although we are not able to verify that. What about you? Do you think "the Genesis account" might be "right"?

Originally posted by FMF
Genesis perhaps works as a metaphor although we are not able to verify that. What about you? Do you think "the Genesis account" might be "right"?

How would saying "In the beginning..." is a metaphor work to negate the meaning of something having a beginning? How does that work?

Originally posted by lemon lime
How would saying "In the beginning..." is a metaphor work to negate the meaning of something having a beginning? How does that work?

I didn't say it did. Genesis perhaps works as a metaphor. If the universe did not have a beginning then it won't be possible to say it works as a metaphor any more. And you? Do you think "the Genesis account" might be "right"?

Originally posted by FMF
I didn't say it did. Genesis perhaps works as a metaphor. If the universe did not have a beginning then it won't be possible to say it works as a metaphor any more. And you? Do you think "the Genesis account" might be "right"?

Genesis has always had it right because it starts off with "In the beginning..."

On the other hand, until the last century the atheist position (posing as science) was that this is nonsense, because the universe had no beginning. Do you believe the universe had a beginning, or do you believe in a static (eternally existing) universe? Was there an initial 'big bang' expansion event, or wasn't there?

Originally posted by lemon lime
Do you believe the universe had a beginning, or do you believe in a static (eternally existing) universe? Was there an initial 'big bang' expansion event, or wasn't there?

Neither of us know.

Originally posted by FMF
Neither of us know.

Speak for yourself.

Originally posted by lemon lime

On the other hand, until the last century the atheist position (posing as science) was that this is nonsense, because the universe had no beginning.

If you seek support from the past (e.g. a century ago) for your side of the science vs theism POV, then you are on very shaky ground.

Of course, the views of science have change over time, and they are changing as we speak (e.g. the LHC is sure to shake things up).

However, historically it is the religious view that has been much more reluctant to change than the scientific view, given new facts and insights at our disposal.

I wonder if a hundred years from now, when we are colonising other planets, there will STILL be some YECs hiding in an outpost, proclaiming the 6000 years give-or-take...

Originally posted by CalJust
If you seek support from the past (e.g. a century ago) for your side of the science vs theism POV, then you are on very shaky ground.

Of course, the views of science have change over time, and they are changing as we speak (e.g. the LHC is sure to shake things up).

However, historically it is the religious view that has been much more reluctan ...[text shortened]... , there will STILL be some YECs hiding in an outpost, proclaiming the 6000 years give-or-take...

It's always amusing when someone tells me something I've witnessed during my lifetime never happened. Don't need to go back a full century, it's actually been more recent than that... and as far as events happening before I was born, it was relatively easy for me as a teenager to find material dated 10-40 years before I showed up. Grew up in a small town with a surprisingly large and comprehensive library.

So Cal, what was the weather like in your neck of the woods today? But why in the world am I asking you, because how would you know? LOL

Originally posted by CalJust
If you seek support from the past (e.g. a century ago) for your side of the science vs theism POV, then you are on very shaky ground.

Of course, the views of science have change over time, and they are changing as we speak (e.g. the LHC is sure to shake things up).

However, historically it is the religious view that has been much more reluctan ...[text shortened]... , there will STILL be some YECs hiding in an outpost, proclaiming the 6000 years give-or-take...

Or if Christ comes back then we see that the universe really is very young
compared to what the vast majority of people thought, most of which the
scripture say are not heading to a good place.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Or if Christ comes back then we see that the universe really is very young
compared to what the vast majority of people thought, most of which the
scripture say are not heading to a good place.
Kelly

No, WHEN Christ comes back, we will all realise what a ridiculous debate this was, since the unity of the God-given scientific insights and the Spiritual Truths will be revealed. And all mankind will be at peace.

Originally posted by CalJust
No, WHEN Christ comes back, we will all realise what a ridiculous debate this was, since the unity of the God-given scientific insights and the Spiritual Truths will be revealed. And all mankind will be at peace.

I think the lot that finds itself on God's bad side, will not be at peace.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think the lot that finds itself on God's bad side, will not be at peace.
Kelly

god has a "bad side"?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think the lot that finds itself on God's bad side, will not be at peace.
Kelly

We are back to the idea of Eternal Punishment, which I have refuted many times.

Go to your concordance or Bible programme and search for "all the earth" and "God's Mercy and Grace".

Originally posted by CalJust
We are back to the idea of Eternal Punishment, which I have refuted many times.

Go to your concordance or Bible programme and search for "all the earth" and "God's Mercy and Grace".

Go to your concordance or Bible and search for "Gods' Justice".

If everyone has sinned but God does not punish sin, then why would any of us need to be forgiven of sin? Forgiveness is conditional on our wanting to be forgiven, and wanting it enough to ask for it. If we don't want to be forgiven, and don't ask God to forgive us (and make no effort to change) then God has no choice but to honor that decision.

God has always honored our freewill decisions, and why not... He endowed us with freewill when He created us. No one I have ever asked has said he would give up his freewill in exchange for the 100% assurance of avoiding any possibility of going to hell.

Originally posted by CalJust
We are back to the idea of Eternal Punishment, which I have refuted many times.

Go to your concordance or Bible programme and search for "all the earth" and "God's Mercy and Grace".

I've read the full thing more than once and study it daily, I have gone
over the topic more than once.
Kelly