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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Bump for eladar
Here’s the question about adultery you ignored in your weird obsession with homosexuality:
“Let’s say you asked about a man who was carrying on an adulterous affair and who was in love with his mistress. Would you consider him saved if he did not immediately break off his adulterous affair?”
Saved or not? Yes or No?
See eladar you mean nothing. Your words mean nothing because you can't be specific. You can't give a simple direct answer to a simple question.
Feel good about saying nothing.
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Originally posted by @eladarAnd as I said earlier, leave me out of your obsession with homosexuals and homosexuality. I’m straight.
No piles of hypotheticals. Unrepentant men who believe they take Jesus as Lord.
Saved or no?
As I said earlier, you stand for nothing. You are wishy washy nonsense.
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeShakespearean trolling? That’s a new one. That sounds like an expensive tool in your trolling toolbox; did you buy it on layaway?
Shakespeare interlude:
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
(Hamlet)
Just keep avoiding substance. We all know what happens when you attempt to discuss that - feet meet banana peels.
I did not expect that there would be any Christians on this forum capable of engaging in a reasoned debate on this topic and thus far that hasn't been. Many Christians believe that homosexuality is condemned. Many do not. Those who do choose to support their prejudice whether they want to admit it or not.
The problem with condemning homosexuality purely on the basis that it's condemned in the Bible is that there are many other things that are condemned in the Bible that they don't similarly condemn, e.g., the wearing of garments made of more than one type of fiber, the eating of shellfish, etc. So clearly they don't actually believe that everything in the Bible that is condemned should be condemned. Yet they condemn homosexuality purely on that basis. They pick and choose to support their prejudice whether they want to admit it or not.
For that matter, in general they pick and choose what teachings to believe and not to believe. As an example I cited the belief that "women should be silent in the church." This comes from Paul. Paul said a number of things about women that, from what I can tell, the vast majority of Christians do not believe are true. They typically dismiss Paul's beliefs about women as being a product of the prejudices of his time and culture. But aren't Paul's beliefs about homosexuality also a product of the prejudices of his time and culture? Once again they pick and choose to support their prejudices whether they want to admit it or not.
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeReaction formation.
Shakespeare interlude:
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
(Hamlet)
Now we're getting into advanced defense mechanism territory. Most people have difficulty understanding reaction formation, but it's really quite straightforward. Let's say that you secretly harbor lustful feelings toward someone you should probably stay away from. You don't want to admit to these feelings, so you instead express the very opposite of those feelings. This object of your lust now becomes the object of your bitter hatred. This defense mechanism could be subtitled the "lady doth protest too much," that wonderful quote from Hamlet. A less highbrow example is "Church Lady," the old Dana Carvey character from Saturday Night Live. Her secret obsession with pornography became reversed into her extreme scorn for all things sexual. In short, reaction formation means expressing the opposite of your inner feelings in your outward behavior.
www.psychologytoday.com
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneBut you reject the central theme of the Bible - Jesus Christ’s deity, Resurrection and the reconciliation between God and man.
I did not expect that there would be any Christians on this forum capable of engaging in a reasoned debate on this topic and thus far that hasn't been. Many Christians believe that homosexuality is condemned. Many do not. Those who do choose to support their prejudice whether they want to admit it or not.
The problem with condemning homosexuali ...[text shortened]... they pick and choose to support their prejudices whether they want to admit it or not.
Surely those are more important than shellfish, fibers and homosexuality.
You’re straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeIf this were true, you should be expressing outrage at trolling. Wait a minute. You do!
Reaction formation.
Now we're getting into advanced defense mechanism territory. Most people have difficulty understanding reaction formation, but it's really quite straightforward. Let's say that you secretly harbor lustful feelings toward someone you should probably stay away from. You don't want to admit to these feelings, so you instead expre ...[text shortened]... ressing the opposite of your inner feelings in your outward behavior.
www.psychologytoday.com
It works!
Edit: LOL!
03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans1009I am talking about something you can only pretend does not exist...
And as I said earlier, leave me out of your obsession with homosexuals and homosexuality. I’m straight.
People who claim to be saved but call sin good.
Now you can see for yourself that such people do exist.
Will people who claim to be saved by Jesus but call good evil and evil good be found righteous on the day of judgement?
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarI’m well aware there are people who think they are saved but who are not.
I am talking about something you can only pretend does not exist...
People who claim to be saved but call sin good.
Now you can see for yourself that such people do exist.
Will people who claim to be saved by Jesus but call good evil and evil good be found righteous on the day of judgement?
The best way to tell is if you develop an aversion to sin, repent and ask God for forgiveness when you do sin and begin to fulfill Galatians 6:2 - “Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.”
Not that I think all this happens immediately as sanctification is a lifelong process but a saved person definitely moves in this direction.
When they are truly and earnestly in God’s Word and prayer, I believe Romans 8:16 is another way to tell: “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans1009So OSAS isn't always accurate. Simply believing you have accepted Jesus as Lord is not enough.
I’m well aware there are people who think they are saved but who are not.
The best way to tell is if you develop an aversion to sin, repent and ask God for forgiveness when you do sin and begin to fulfill Galatians 6:2 - “Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.”
Not that I think all this happens immediately as sanctification ...[text shortened]... y to tell: “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
I agree.
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Originally posted by @eladarI didn’t say that. Believing in the heart, which is how one is saved a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, is different from simply believing as many English-speaking people use the word today, as in, “I believe it will rain this weekend.” That’s not believing in the heart.
So OSAS isn't always accurate. Simply believing you have accepted Jesus as Lord is not enough.
I agree.
Believing in the heart is a sincere, committed, self-sacrificing belief, and that level of belief is not always easy to acquire.
03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans1009People believe false prophets with their heart.
I didn’t say that. Believing in the heart, which is how one is saved a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, is different from simply believing as many English-speaking people use the word today, as in, “I believe it will rain this weekend.” That’s not believing in the heart.
Believing in the heart is a sincere, committed, self-sacrificing belief, and that level of belief is not always easy to acquire.
The core problem with your theology is that each person decides for himself or herself. Each is right in the individual's mind and most are blind following the blind.
Yet you can't help but call those who call evil good brother or sister because each claims to take Christ as Lord. If a person makes the claim it must be true according to you.
03 Jun 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @romans1009Seems like many who believe in OSAS think that their salvation is assured. Given what you've said here, it seems it would be presumptuous for any of them to think that they are in a position to judge whether or not they themselves would be judged as "Believing in the heart [with] a sincere, committed, self-sacrificing belief". Seems like none can know for sure.
I didn’t say that. Believing in the heart, which is how one is saved a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, is different from simply believing as many English-speaking people use the word today, as in, “I believe it will rain this weekend.” That’s not believing in the heart.
Believing in the heart is a sincere, committed, self-sacrificing belief, and that level of belief is not always easy to acquire.
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladar<<People believe false prophets with their heart.>>
People believe false prophets with their heart.
The core problem with your theology is that each person decides for himself or herself. Each is right in the individual's mind and most are blind following the blind.
Yet you can't help but call those who call evil good brother or sister because each claims to take Christ as Lord. If a person makes the claim it must be true according to you.
This is a non sequitur. Believing a false prophet in one’s heart is obviously not the same as believing in the deity and Resurrection of Jesus Christ in one’s heart, and the former would not lead to the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit.
I already said how one can tell if they are genuinely saved - the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit leads to an aversion to sin, remorse and repentance when one sins, a desire to bear one another’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ, as well as Romans 8:16.
I never said if a person makes the claim it must be true. Only the individual in question and God knows if he or she is genuinely saved.
The core problems with salvation by works is no one (at least on here so far) can define or quantify “good works” as they relate to salvation, no one can explain how the thief on the cross was saved, the false doctrine of salvation by works requires that one’s eternal destination be determined after one dies when the Bible says people can know if they are saved while they are on earth, it contradicts numerous verses in the Bible and also contradicts that God judges not as man judges - man judges by outward appearances and behavior; the Lord looks on the heart.