26 Apr 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't thionk so, twhite. I've heard that people have "called to account" verses concerning waht constitutes a "day" in the Old Testament (and the new too, for that matter), because a day could mean any period of time, in some translations. Virtually all Bible verses are going to be questioned and called to account simply because of what they are--the Words of the Almighty. If that doesn't make them subject to scrutiny, nothing is.
Both you and I know perfectly well what 'pillar of the community' means and there is infact no double meaning in the phrase. You also know perfectly well that if the bible verse in question had not been called to account that not one single person would have ever suggested that 'generation' in that context meant anything other than a typical human generation.
Of course it would be nice to hear the perspective of someone who knows the Greek.
29 Apr 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydYou have avoided the issue. I claimed that you would never have given that meaning to the word 'generation' in that context if you had not realized that not doing so would result in a conflict with your beliefs.
I don't thionk so, twhite. I've heard that people have "called to account" verses concerning waht constitutes a "day" in the Old Testament (and the new too, for that matter), because a day could mean any period of time, in some translations. Virtually all Bible verses are going to be questioned and called to account simply because of what they are--the Words of the Almighty. If that doesn't make them subject to scrutiny, nothing is.
At least you only said "could well have been" when referring to other possible meanings whereas others claimed another possible meaning was clear.
But the issue still remains. If you adjust your interpretation to try to avoid conflicts there is a clear risk that you are getting wrong everything else where there is no conflict.
29 Apr 08
When the cumulative actions of all the signs have taken place the second advent of Christ will occur. It could occur in any generation after the Cross. These signs represent a process of cause and effect culminating in our Lord delivering His nation Israel and all believers alive at that time. Certain signs have taken place in all generations prompting many erroneous speculations. The exact time was planned by God the Father in eternity past and not disclosed so that we would live by faith in His promises.
29 Apr 08
Originally posted by knightmeister"this generation" is the generation Jesus is reffering to in the preceeding verses, the "last generation". The "last generation" will not happen until all the things mentioned actually occur. This generation does not refer to Jesus's present day generation, but a future generation containing all the events mentioned in Mathew 24.
In Matthew 24:34 (I think) Jesus says “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
CS LEWIS comments on this - “Say what you like," we shall be told, "the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Co ...[text shortened]... ust went a bit far in his predictions. Even the best public speaker makes mistakes?
01 May 08
Originally posted by NimzovichLarsenDo you know why the Good news version translates it in a way that does not say this at all but says " before the people now living are dead"
"this generation" is the generation Jesus is reffering to in the preceeding verses, the "last generation". The "last generation" will not happen until all the things mentioned actually occur. This generation does not refer to Jesus's present day generation, but a future generation containing all the events mentioned in Mathew 24.
01 May 08
Originally posted by kiki46You say this but some of the signs mentioned (like the arrests of the disciples ) did occur in their generation. If you are right then all the others signs should have followed on with a short period of time. They didn't. Jesus specifically mentions the disciples arrest in amongst all the other signs.
When the cumulative actions of all the signs have taken place the second advent of Christ will occur. It could occur in any generation after the Cross. These signs represent a process of cause and effect culminating in our Lord delivering His nation Israel and all believers alive at that time. Certain signs have taken place in all generations prompting many e ...[text shortened]... od the Father in eternity past and not disclosed so that we would live by faith in His promises.
01 May 08
Originally posted by kiki46But one of the signs preceding this was the destruction of the temple and the arrest of the disciples.Therefore , the early church must have thought that it was their generation he was refering to, and reading jesus's words who could blame them?
The second coming of Christ could have occured in any generation after the cross.They were told to be aware of this and teach it. Christ in His humanity did not know the exact time. In His deity He knows all things as the Father and the Holy Spirit.
01 May 08
Get the New American Standard Bible, much more accurate. The "academic" you refers to the arrest and persecution of disciples in all generations not specific to them only.Prophecy in the Bible many times has near and far fulfillment, some things did happen in their generation." As in Noah"s day"is also mentioned. It refers to normal living where many of these signs occur, yet very few people in any age understand historical trends. In order to resolve the angelic conflict God had to keep many future events [ time of] unknown to us. When the second advent occurs all prophecy regarding it will have taken place.
01 May 08
Originally posted by kiki46So when Jesus talks directly to the disciples themselves in answer to a direct question about his coming and the destruction of the temple and their arrests - you actually think that it was a "general" message to all disciples? Could the disciples be forgiven for thinking that he was actually talking about them? If he wasn't why did he not say so?
Get the New American Standard Bible, much more accurate. The "academic" you refers to the arrest and persecution of disciples in all generations not specific to them only.Prophecy in the Bible many times has near and far fulfillment, some things did happen in their generation." As in Noah"s day"is also mentioned. It refers to normal living where ...[text shortened]... known to us. When the second advent occurs all prophecy regarding it will have taken place.
Infact if you read the whole thing in context , it's so confusing and vague but also strangely specific. What was the purpose of it? The disciples asked him when this would happen and what would be the sign of the end of the age (his second coming). It appears he did not answer them and that no-one has become any the wiser since. Generations of christians have been arrested and are always arrested and there are always false prophets around in every age- so how does telling us this help anything? If Jesus was going to make a prophecy why was it not testable and more specific - if he wasn't then why make it at all ?
06 May 08
Originally posted by kiki46I assume you mean Integrity?
Specific prophecy to an individual limits his volition. General prophecy warns all people and encourages all people thatGod keeps His word. Fulfillment of prophecy is the Integrity of God.
Well, unless you can honestly say you understand God and his plans (which defeats one of Christianity's main beliefs), then you are making a pretentious estimate based on your own ideas.