19 Jul 20
@petewxyz saidWould it make more sense to you (I admit that I, too, find the word 'intoxicant' perhaps too harsh in this context) if instead of 'intoxicant', he had said 'comforter'?
Intoxicants depress cognitive function ultimately resulting in confusional states. I suspect that whilst the literal meaning of what you have written makes little sense you wrote this with the purpose of communicating something else and so respectfully ask you what you are trying to communicate?
@divegeester saidHowever, since 'intoxicant', as our friend the doctor states, is more associated with a depression of cognitive function and/or reaction time, it doesn't seem to have the same meaning as 'motivator', 'stimulant' or 'driver' and in fact, suggests the opposite.
If you too struggle with interpreting metaphors, then perhaps try substituting my evocative and flowery “intoxicant” with any of these potential alternatives:
- motivator
- stimulant
- driver
PS “flowery” is another metaphor, sorry!
This, rather than some sort of inability to understand metaphor, is what drives his confusion; at least it seems that way to me. He just asked you for a better word to describe what you mean. You provided three, and so understanding can be much more clear. I see no need to bring his 'ability to understand metaphor' into question. After all, he never brought your 'ability to construct metaphor' into question, he only asked for clarity.
@suzianne saidI guess the important thing would be to look for Dive's meaning and ask him for his preferred metaphor. I was really just illustrating what it is like if you latch on to the literal meaning of somebody's words as opposed to looking for the meaning that they wish to communicate about (as was done to me the other day and seems to be deemed as okay in this 'Spirituality' forum).
Would it make more sense to you (I admit that I, too, find the word 'intoxicant' perhaps too harsh in this context) if instead of 'intoxicant', he had said 'comforter'?
@petewxyz saidYes, I get you, believe me.
I guess the important thing would be to look for Dive's meaning and ask him for his preferred metaphor. I was really just illustrating what it is like if you latch on to the literal meaning of somebody's words as opposed to looking for the meaning that they wish to communicate about (as was done to me the other day and seems to be deemed as okay in this 'Spirituality' forum).
19 Jul 20
@divegeester saidIn group prayer meetings, I often used to feel euphoria.
I think the desire to understand where we originate from, combined with the need to hope that we are going somewhere is a powerful cognitive intoxicant.
@petewxyz saidAre you still peeved about how you stated that you believe that a "true" atheist is one who ends up a theist, and how you doubled down on it, and doubled down on it again, and again, and again, and then you blamed everyone ELSE for thinking that you believe that a "true" atheist is one who ends up a theist?
I guess the important thing would be to look for Dive's meaning and ask him for his preferred metaphor. I was really just illustrating what it is like if you latch on to the literal meaning of somebody's words as opposed to looking for the meaning that they wish to communicate about (as was done to me the other day and seems to be deemed as okay in this 'Spirituality' forum).
19 Jul 20
@secondson saidYes I follow your drift, and it certainly is a “drift”. That’s simile by the way, not a metaphor...
Like, did God create in man those desires and needs"? Or perhaps they develop in man as a result of the separation from the spiritual life and fellowship with God?
Follow my drift?
I couldn’t say for certain; knowledge has certainly increased (as predicted in the bible) and the collectivity of mankind’s ingenuity has certainly benefited from the breakdown of the social and language barriers depicted in the account of Babel.
I suppose then that it is bit of creation and a bit of cognitive evolution.
@fmf saidIt was more a comment on the treatment people generally receive here (you refer to and attempt to reignite one specific example) as described in the post that you quote but ignore.
Are you still peeved about how you stated that you believe that a "true" atheist is one who ends up a theist, and how you doubled down on it, and doubled down on it again, and again, and again, and then you blamed everyone ELSE for thinking that you believe that a "true" atheist is one who ends up a theist?
@suzianne saidThen disregard stimulant, driver and motivator and stick with “intoxicant”.
However, since 'intoxicant', as our friend the doctor states, is more associated with a depression of cognitive function and/or reaction time, it doesn't seem to have the same meaning as 'motivator', 'stimulant' or 'driver' and in fact, suggests the opposite.
I’m sorry that you and Petewxyz struggle with the contextual relevance of the metaphor and choose instead the negative connotations rather than the positive, such as being intoxicated with love or passion or desire.
19 Jul 20
@suzianne saidGhost of a duke is answering for you, you are answering for Petewxyz and presumably Petewxyz will be answering for Ghost of a duke any minute now...
This, rather than some sort of inability to understand metaphor, is what drives his confusion; at least it seems that way to me.
19 Jul 20
@petewxyz saidI’m a bit sorry that the meaning of my post was lost on you because you find the use of “intoxicant” so impenetrable. I’m not sure what else I can do to help you.
I guess the important thing would be to look for Dive's meaning and ask him for his preferred metaphor. I was really just illustrating what it is like if you latch on to the literal meaning of somebody's words as opposed to looking for the meaning that they wish to communicate about (as was done to me the other day and seems to be deemed as okay in this 'Spirituality' forum).
19 Jul 20
@petewxyz saidSo you are stil peeved? You made a fool of yourself but it wasn't your fault, it was other people's fault, right?
It was more a comment on the treatment people generally receive here (you refer to and attempt to reignite one specific example) as described in the post that you quote but ignore.
19 Jul 20
@petewxyz saidIt was an intoxicating forum experience witnessing your behaviour in that thread and in particular your doubling-down on your claim.
It was more a comment on the treatment people generally receive here (you refer to and attempt to reignite one specific example) as described in the post that you quote but ignore.
I’m sorry for my use of “intoxicating” as an unnecessary but topical metaphor...
19 Jul 20
@petewxyz saidYou are baffled by the word "intoxicants"? Why? Here's what you said about sudden religious conversions a couple of weeks ago:
Intoxicants depress cognitive function ultimately resulting in confusional states. I suspect that whilst the literal meaning of what you have written makes little sense you wrote this with the purpose of communicating something else and so respectfully ask you what you are trying to communicate?
"People become deluded in an instant (certainly seen that in practice) but personality changes slowly. According to most psychiatrists and psychologists there is a clear distinction, but I think that is overly certain. How do you fit sudden religious conversion into that scheme. Should you treat it with antipsychotics?"
19 Jul 20
I am unclear whether Dive and FMF cannot understand my meaning or obtusely refuse to look for it, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt by continuing to post.
I am unclear why they make certain statements about perceiving limitations in my ability to understand and communicate, but since these are abilities that have been assessed by respected professional bodies I have no reason to be interested in these comments beyond noticing a somewhat alarming certainty on their parts, where certainty about the other is not indicated.
The issue I am attempting to discuss is whether their approach belongs in a forum called 'Spirituality'. It really isn't going to result in anything better than a playground squabble if you just force your certain opinion about what the other is trying to say as opposed to seeking the meaning and motivation behind their words.