Originally posted by @sonshipI really don't think you can talk about side-stepping. It is you who will not be candid about some matters like rejecting the resurrection of Christ and the authority of the New Testament. Your method of kind of hoping no one will notice such momentous negations of the Gospel I consider huge side-stepping in a covert way.All you've done here is side-step the real question.
I really don't think you can talk about side-stepping. It is you who will not be candid about some matters like rejecting the resurrection of Christ and the authority of the New Testament. Your method of kind of hoping no one will notice such momentous negations of the Gospel I consid ...[text shortened]... us from eternal judgement. I am limited to a brief post here and not a chapter of a book.
Evidently in your zeal to deflect from the fact that you side-stepped the real question, you've stooped to blatant dishonesty.
I'll take them one at a time given your seeming inability to keep more than one thing in your mind.
Where is the post from you directly stepping into an admission of rejecting probably 80% of the New Testament as a myth?
Why do you pretend that I've haven't been more than forthcoming about my position on the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth vs the words of others?
I can't imagine that anyone who has participated in this forum for any length of time is not aware of this. The following from a little over a year ago is but one example:
By and large, I find the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth to be reasonably sound and reasonably coherent within themselves. What's more, I find much of what was attributed to Him to be remarkably deep and quite profound. As such, by and large, I find the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth to be "true".
I don't share that view of the mythology and beliefs that the NT writers wrapped around them. At best, they can merely echo His words. At worst, they deviate from His words and at times substantially so.
I certainly don't share many of the beliefs espoused by many Christians - many of which are antithetical to what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth.
Pasted from <http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/prove-sonhouse-wrong.171274/page-3>
Over the years I have made many similar posts.
When did you become so shamelessly dishonest?
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22 Jan 18
Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]I really don't think you can talk about side-stepping. It is you who will not be candid about some matters like rejecting the resurrection of Christ and the authority of the New Testament. Your method of kind of hoping no one will notice such momentous negations of the Gospel I consider huge side-stepping in a covert way.
Evidently in your zea ...[text shortened]...
Over the years I have made many similar posts.
When did you become so shamelessly dishonest?[/b]
Over the years I have made many similar posts.
When did you become so shamelessly dishonest?
My recollection is that I had to labor quite a bit to get you to come out about your mythologizing the New Testament.
I recall this post I think. But I also recall quite a long time, at least between the two of us, where you held such thoughts close to the vest.
I suppose all this rejection of the Gospel's message is always wrapped up in your favorite trademark delivery - "Jesus while He walked on earth."
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2 edits
Originally posted by @thinkofone
Why do you pretend that I've haven't been more than forthcoming about my position on the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth vs the words of others?
So how do we know that you simply do not dismiss all words as words of others (even in direct quotations of Jesus), which you do not like ?
Are these the words of Jesus or the words of others ?
" For neither does the Father judge anyone, but has given all judgment to the Son, In order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father, He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:22,23)
Are these the words of Jesus or the words of others?
"I am the resurrection and the life ..." (John 11:25)
You believe Jesus taught that He was the resurrection and the divine ZOE life - the eternal life ? Or are these the words of others who artificially put their invented sayings into His mouth?
What about the words from His mouth AFTER the Gospels record Him rising from the dead ?
Ie.
"O foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! ...Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day,
And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." (see Luke 24:25; 46,47)
Why do you pretend that I've haven't been more than forthcoming about my position on the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth vs the words of others?
I think that you are about to demonstrate that your intention is to amputate words away from Jesus which you don't believe or like. And the effect is to actually oppose and fight against the ministry of Jesus.
No one wanting to start a religion by cashing in on something Jesus taught, wants to admit to the world that they actually are ANTI - Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by @thinkofonebeing saved and going to the Father are two different things. Faith alone brings us to Jesus. But faith alone will not take you to the Father.
Seems like many Christians believe some variation of the following:
[quote][b]Is believing in Jesus enough to be saved?
Yes, believing in Jesus is enough to be saved...
So, believing in Jesus means you believe that he is God and flesh (Colossians 2:9). In addition, you must believe the gospel (Mark 1:15) that is defined as the death, burial, ...[text shortened]... e only sin that God cannot forgive.
How is this not an incredibly perverse conception of God?[/b]
Jesus says, no one can go to the Father but through me.
So going to the Father requires us to recieve Jesus, to accept Jesus. Faith brings us to Jesus, and in Recieving Jesus takes us to the Father
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22 Jan 18
“being saved and going to the Father are two different things”
My announcement of the death of this thread was premature. However, with this two-step requirement, avoiding the wrath of God seems further out of reach than is assured by just refraining from blasphemy. What exactly are the essential Articles of Faith? Anyone?
Originally posted by @js357just quoting scripture. something everyone seems to do without understanding what is read
“being saved and going to the Father are two different things”
My announcement of the death of this thread was premature. However, with this two-step requirement, avoiding the wrath of God seems further out of reach than is assured by just refraining from blasphemy. What exactly are the essential Articles of Faith? Anyone?
Originally posted by @sonshipC'mon Jaywill.You're side-stepping the point. The point is that were shamelessly dishonest in your previous post in your attempt to side-step the earlier question which is central to the topic of this thread. You made a false accusation and I proved your accusation false.Over the years I have made many similar posts.
When did you become so shamelessly dishonest?
My recollection is that I had to labor quite a bit to get you to come out about your mythologizing the New Testament.
I recall this post I think. But I also recall quite a long time, at least between the two of us, where you held such thou ...[text shortened]... age is always wrapped up in your favorite trademark delivery - "Jesus while He walked on earth."
Now instead of simply apologizing, you've chosen to attempt to spin it into something else that is also misleading? How shameless is that? How arrogant is that?
22 Jan 18
Originally posted by @pudgenikThis is a different topic than that of this thread.
being saved and going to the Father are two different things. Faith alone brings us to Jesus. But faith alone will not take you to the Father.
Jesus says, no one can go to the Father but through me.
So going to the Father requires us to recieve Jesus, to accept Jesus. Faith brings us to Jesus, and in Recieving Jesus takes us to the Father
Why don't you start another thread if you want to discuss this topic? I'll join in.
Why don't you address the topic of this thread?
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22 Jan 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI addressed directly the OP about perverseness.
This is a different topic than that of this thread.
Why don't you start another thread if you want to discuss this topic? I'll join in.
Why don't you address the topic of this thread?
And you say an apology is owed you.
You made some statements to which I conversationally engaged the one about perverseness. And you say then I cannot keep more than one thing on my mind and you need an apology.
You can "C'mon" until you're blue in the face.
You can whine about me not holding more than one thing in mind as much as you wish.
And you can say I'm dishonest as much as you want to.
The "perversity" is coming from your reactions.
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1 edit
Originally posted by @thinkofone
Now instead of simply apologizing, you've chosen to attempt to spin it into something else that is also misleading? How shameless is that? How arrogant is that?
Am I suppose to be blushing or something ?
I stand by every word I have written here to you.
Get use to it.
23 Jan 18
Originally posted by @pudgenikTo accept Jesus means to accept his teachings and commandments and to do them.
being saved and going to the Father are two different things. Faith alone brings us to Jesus. But faith alone will not take you to the Father.
Jesus says, no one can go to the Father but through me.
So going to the Father requires us to recieve Jesus, to accept Jesus. Faith brings us to Jesus, and in Recieving Jesus takes us to the Father
There is a large percentage of Christians who preach mouth acceptance. Jesus is interested in good works and righteous living
Originally posted by @sonshipYou "stand by" your dishonesty?Now instead of simply apologizing, you've chosen to attempt to spin it into something else that is also misleading? How shameless is that? How arrogant is that?
Am I suppose to be blushing or something ?
I stand by every word I have written here to you.
Get use to it.
Since you refuse to own up to your dishonesty, I'll once again lay out exactly where you were dishonest. I'll try lay it out as simply as I can.
This is what you wrote that is dishonest:
It is you who will not be candid about some matters like rejecting... the authority of the New Testament. Your method of kind of hoping no one will notice such momentous negations of the Gospel I consider huge side-stepping in a covert way...Where is the post from you directly stepping into an admission of rejecting probably 80% of the New Testament as a myth?
The fact is that this is untrue. You've falsely accused me of not being candid about where I stand on the New Testament with the implication that I was being underhanded about it. The following post from more than a year ago unambiguously shows that it is untrue:
By and large, I find the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth to be reasonably sound and reasonably coherent within themselves. What's more, I find much of what was attributed to Him to be remarkably deep and quite profound. As such, by and large, I find the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth to be "true".
I don't share that view of the mythology and beliefs that the NT writers wrapped around them. At best, they can merely echo His words. At worst, they deviate from His words and at times substantially so.
I certainly don't share many of the beliefs espoused by many Christians - many of which are antithetical to what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth.
Pasted from <http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/prove-sonhouse-wrong.171274/page-3>
You asked, "Where is the post from you directly stepping into an admission of rejecting probably 80% of the New Testament as a myth?", and I showed you exactly where. Over the years I've made many similar posts. What more, you've made this false accusation before and I'd pointed it out then too.
That you "stand by" your dishonesty says much about your lack of moral fiber. You underhandedly continue to make the same false accusation and "stand by" it.