05 Oct 09
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou've been free to reread BW's posts and my posts on this thread at anytime for comprehension, yet you insist on remaining a clown.
You once again offer no way in. No indication of what it is you want me to comprehend nor any attempt to address anything substantial or issue based.
Why exactly do you bother with this forum if you don't want to discuss anything that challenges you?
You have no interest in anything rational or objective , just crusading. Any objective poster w ...[text shortened]... om God.
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You're incorrigible.
Just reread the posts instead of insisting on remaining a pompous ass.
05 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneMe the clown? I'm not the one running away from the issues . I'm ready to discuss anything with you - right here - right now . It's you who live in the past. Go forward not backwards. I offered you a chance to clarify what it was I should comprehend , but you would not do it.
You've been free to reread BW's posts and my posts on this thread at anytime for comprehension, yet you insist on remaining a clown.
You're incorrigible.
Just reread the posts instead of insisting on remaining a pompous ass.
Why should I not stand my ground? There's an obvious logical flaw in your position on the words of Jesus. Are we here to discuss Truth or some other nonsense?
Why do you think this is about me? Your problem lies with the explicit words of Jesus that contradict your position. It's interesting that you seem so passionate about Jesus's words but only when it suits.
Argue with the man who you talk so much about and seem to know so much about , but won't say if you really believe in Him.
Here....listen to him..............
"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
05 Oct 09
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou're the one who can't be bothered to read and comprehend the posts of others. Until you can manage this skill, there can be no meaningful dialogue. I've already posted this concept several times, yet you still do not seem to comprehend it. You're too much of a pompous ass to do so.
Me the clown? I'm not the one running away from the issues . I'm ready to discuss anything with you - right here - right now . It's you who live in the past. Go forward not backwards. I offered you a chance to clarify what it was I should comprehend , but you would not do it.
Why should I not stand my ground? There's an obvious logical flaw in y ...[text shortened]... . 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
What's more, I've pointed to what you need to comprehend several times as well, but you're too much of a pompous ass to do so.
05 Oct 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI think what you mean is that I must agree with your posts before you agree to discuss things. My experience is that unless you perceive someone as agreeing with your posts , you tend to accuse them of not understanding or reading them. Myabe they just DO understand them but just think you are missing something (unbelievable idea this must be for you I know)
You're the one who can't be bothered to read and comprehend the posts of others. Until you can manage this skill, there can be no meaningful dialogue. I've already posted this concept several times, yet you still do not seem to comprehend it. You're too much of a pompous ass to do so.
What's more, I've pointed to what you need to comprehend several times as well, but you're too much of a pompous ass to do so.
Was it the way that I quickly dismissed Badwaters post ? Was that it ? I can't discuss or comprehend what you won't clarify.
If you are asking me to comprehend that I dismissed Badwaters point very quickly then I understand that I did. I can also say why I did.
As for your posts , do you want me to re-read your entire archive or just recent ones? It's a simple enough question.
In the meantime , while I go on some wild goose chase for this illusive thing that I must understand have a listen to the Jesus you love to quote. Does this sound like someone who thinks forgiveness is a one time deal? Does this sound like instructions to Christians who never struggle with sin?
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"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
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05 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterAs for your posts , do you want me to re-read your entire archive or just recent ones? It's a simple enough question.
I think what you mean is that I must agree with your posts before you agree to discuss things. My experience is that unless you perceive someone as agreeing with your posts , you tend to accuse them of not understanding or reading them. Myabe they just DO understand them but just think you are missing something (unbelievable idea this must be for you ur sins.
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This just exemplifies what I've been saying.
A few posts ago I said:
"Just reread everything in this thread for comprehension."
And the post after that I said:
"You've been free to reread BW's posts and my posts on this thread at anytime for comprehension, yet you insist on remaining a clown."
What part of the above can't you understand?
If you actually read my posts you'll also see where I've pointed several times to what you evidently didn't comprehend in BW's posts.
Why do you insist on being such a pompous ass?
When you can't be bothered to read and comprehend my posts, how can we possibly have a meaningful discussion?
05 Oct 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIt's evident that you still have no idea why BW said, "Guess you need to reread my previous post." What's more, since you don't seem to understand it, I'm still trying to get you to reread and comprehend BW's point. That's pretty much all I've been trying to do since I came in. If you'd reread and comprehend my posts, you'd realize this.
You're the one who can't be bothered to read and comprehend the posts of others. Until you can manage this skill, there can be no meaningful dialogue. I've already posted this concept several times, yet you still do not seem to comprehend it. You're too much of a pompous ass to do so.
What's more, I've pointed to what you need to comprehend several times as well, but you're too much of a pompous ass to do so.
------------------ToOne---------------------------------------------------
You said this a bit further back in this thread.
Now , take a deep breath and relax and try to understand.
I WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO DISCUSS THE MERITS OF BADWATERS POST WITH YOU.
The fact is that you are right. I don't understand it. Now this could be because I am too dim to understand it . OR it could be that it's a rubbish point that doesn't add up.
However , in that post Badwater is trying to make what seems quite a complex theological point and he uses a very minimal amount of words to do it in. It's obviously a point that needs to be expanded on and discussed. It may be self evident to you. But it's not to me and I doubt that it would be to others.
So why the mystery? You could have explained it further quite easily in half the words you used to accuse me of being pompous.
I'm ready to discuss anything you like right NOW. All I ask is that the following...
1) You are open to a fair challenge and don't pre assume you are right.
2) You do not constantly perceive someone disagreeing with as an "attack"
3) We stick to the issues and the words of Jesus
4) You are logically consistent and objective.
5) The discussion is equitable and fairly done so each person gets a chance to have their point addressed.
6) We focus on Truth and not each other.
This is what I have been trying to do since the very first time we bumped into each other. My experience has been that you don't really want to know as soon as it gets a bit tricky. This feedback has also come from others , but you seem blind to it.
05 Oct 09
2 edits
Originally posted by knightmeisterRead my post just before this one.
It's evident that you still have no idea why BW said, "Guess you need to reread my previous post." What's more, since you don't seem to understand it, I'm still trying to get you to reread and comprehend BW's point. That's pretty much all I've been trying to do since I came in. If you'd reread and comprehend my posts, you'd realize this.
------------ tricky. This feedback has also come from others , but you seem blind to it.
You could have explained it further quite easily in half the words you used to accuse me of being pompous.
All you've ever need do is reread BW's suggestion in the context given. That's all I've been trying to get you to do. Instead you just go off on your monologues like usual.
You remain too much of a pompous ass to do so.
06 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhy continue to live in the past? Why the cloak and dagger games? Why imply when you can be explicit? Why play games when you can just get on with discussion? It's easy ToOne , just discuss things - you won't die.
Read my post just before this one.
[b]You could have explained it further quite easily in half the words you used to accuse me of being pompous.
All you've ever need do is reread BW's suggestion in the context given. That's all I've been trying to get you to do. Instead you just go off on your monologues like usual.
You remain too much of a pompous ass to do so.[/b]
If you examine the exchanges on this thread you will see that I was the first one to raise a contradictory issue regarding Matt 6:9 and John 8:32. After that Badwater made no attempt to acknowledge there was any problem , but unstead indulged in speculations that he has yet to back up with any logic.
You cannot see that he was just speculating and not really responding meaningfully to the problems that Matt 6:9 brings up. No-one has as yet responded properly to my point or comprehended the logical contradiction it creates for your position.
Since I raised this point all you have done is told me to go back and re-read things in a non-specific and patronising way or called me a pompous ass.
The one thing you have not done (and it seems cannot bring yourself to do) is address the discussion. Every time you post you find some rationalisation , some excuse to avoid discussing anything. That's what anyone will see if they look at this thread. They will see one person ready to discuss and debate and the other person unwilling to engage.
I'm not afraid to enter the crucible of truth where the issues can be thrashed out properly. It seems to me that thrashing out the truth is not a place you want to go. You already made your mind up long ago. You come across as just as bigoted and close minded as the very people you accuse.
Does this sound like someone who thinks forgiveness is a one time deal? Does this sound like instructions to Christians who never struggle with sin?
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"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
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- 07 Jan 08
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06 Oct 09
Originally posted by knightmeisterSo instead of being clear on what I was talking about, you just trudge along with assumptions. Then, in a fit of opaque clarity, continuing to not understand a thing I'm saying, you dismiss it as having a go at you?
...
I'm not sure if this was what Badwater meant. What do you think he meant?
I dismissed Badwater's post quite quickly because for me it had all the hallmarks of an ill thought out point designed have a go at me just for the sake of it.
....
That's rich. If I'm gunning for you at all, you'll know. It will be crystal clear and beyond the shadow of doubt. That is most certainly what is not happening.
What does seem to be happening is that you can't be bothered to read and understand what I've said. Can't say I didn't try.
06 Oct 09
Originally posted by BadwaterBut you are free to discuss things right now if you so choose. Why choose to live in the past when you can discuss things now?What's done is done. I am trying to understand your post and also trying to point out that....................
So instead of being clear on what I was talking about, you just trudge along with assumptions. Then, in a fit of opaque clarity, continuing to not understand a thing I'm saying, you dismiss it as having a go at you?
That's rich. If I'm gunning for you at all, you'll know. It will be crystal clear and beyond the shadow of doubt. That is most certai ...[text shortened]... hat you can't be bothered to read and understand what I've said. Can't say I didn't try.
a) I think it may be flawed logically
b) You have not gone into enough detail for people to understand it
Why do you think that a few sentences are enough? You need to say more and expand on your point.
I will happily discuss your points right here and right now. I will listen to what you have to say. All you have to do is accept that I will reserve my right to disagree with you , as I expect you will with me.
You also need to accept that people are not perfect and do not always respond perfectly. When you posted I was feeling that you were siding with ToOne without really thinking through the contradictions between Matt 6:9 and John 8:32.
So , let's get discussing. I'm game.
06 Oct 09
Originally posted by RenarsI don't want anyone to take sides . I just want to discuss the Truth.
although this has turned into an exclusive 1:1 dialogue, I thought I'd just add my two cents: I do admire [b]Knightmeister's patience 'cause ThinkOfOne just keeps avoiding discussing the issue and has completely lost it... I'm not taking sides, just being an unbiased passer-by here..[/b]
I am glad however that you have noticed who is prepared to enter the crucible of Truth and who wants to stay outside.
06 Oct 09
6 edits
Originally posted by RenarsWow. Have you misread the situation.
although this has turned into an exclusive 1:1 dialogue, I thought I'd just add my two cents: I do admire [b]Knightmeister's patience 'cause ThinkOfOne just keeps avoiding discussing the issue and has completely lost it... I'm not taking sides, just being an unbiased passer-by here..[/b]
KM is what is known as a "cyber stalker". He has been stalking me for more than a year. Note that the "issue" is not related to the topic of the thread. Note that this is just one of several threads that KM has hijacked or attempted to hijack to discuss his "issue". If you want an example, look at the "Michael Moore on Jesus" thread.
What you interpret as "patience" is fueled by an irrational compulsion. KM cannot deal with the fact that Jesus taught salvation by righteousness and has been assailing me with a long string of irrational arguments. This is just the latest. He's a nutter that cannot seem to comprehend the posts of others. As such having a meaningful dialogue with him is impossible. Hopefully there will come a day that he comes to realize that his obsession has rendered him incapable of comprehending the posts of others or speaking rationally on this topic. Hopefully some day he will come to embrace the teachings of Jesus instead of working so hard to avoid them.
07 Oct 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhy do you fire off these bullets when you know you are avoiding the issues? I will let Renars and others judge for themselves who is avoiding what.
Wow. Have you misread the situation.
KM is what is known as a "cyber stalker". He has been stalking me for more than a year. Note that the "issue" is not related to the topic of the thread. Note that this is just one of several threads that KM has hijacked or attempted to hijack to discuss his "issue". If you want an example, look at the "Michael Moore ...[text shortened]... will come to embrace the teachings of Jesus instead of working so hard to avoid them.
It's clear that you don't want to discuss the issues or thrash out the truth here. The problem is that it was always like this from the beginning. You could never deal with a challenge to your position.
You are also well known for turning up on any thread that you can and quoting Jesus or slagging off St Paul. That's fine and dandy but don't go accusing others of something you do yourself (albeit more subtley than me). I am also unaware of any rule that says you cannot take a thread in a different direction , it happens all the time. Why the protest? It seems petty to me.
The problem is that you want people to embrace the teachings of Jesus selectively , and ignore any passages that don't fit with your view. You portray me as a cyberstalker and irrational because that suits you. It means that you can neatly avoid discussing anything substantial in any depth. It's always you that walks off with your ball and cries foul - it's your pattern so that you can justifiy your evasion and obtusiveness to yourself.
The brute facts are there. I will discuss things you won't. If I am as irrational as you say then why not prove it in a proper debate then everyone will no doubt see how flimsy my position is and how rational yours is. I'm up for it , why not you?
Why not give yourself the chance to do this instead of wasting words on idle speculations about what may or may not happen in a meaningful discussion? Let's just do it and we'll see who is being irrational. Alas , it's something you can never do for fear of being exposed.