The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

@fmf said
I don't know much about Pharisee Jews. Perhaps he was being totally honest. Perhaps that was the way his religion made him feel he must pray. I don't know whether, within the term of reference of his religion, he was being humble or not humble or obedient or disobedient, how can I know? What he says seem OK to me. It seems like a list of facts related to his religious observance. If there is a disconnect between his ideology and the resulting belief, then I am unaware of it.

And after all the word salads you still can't identify the humble party in the OP with your all your superior understanding.

@fmf said
I am poopooing the notion that this manifestation of the faith is an example of "humility".

Do you regard 'humility' as a good thing or a bad thing or neither?

@dj2becker said
Do you regard 'humility' as a good thing or a bad thing or neither?

I have already told you that I have no ideology that I attach to "humility" per se, that people can engage in "humility" if they want to [or its opposite], and that it is not "good" or "bad", in and of itself. I have already told you this repeatedly. Why are you asking me again?

@dj2becker said
And after all the word salads you still can't identify the humble party in the OP with your all your superior understanding.

There have been no "word salads". You have your answer. Point blank. Explained. Answered again. Explained again.

@fmf said
I have already told you that I have no ideology that I attach to "humility" per se, that people can engage in "humility" if they want to [or its opposite], and that it is not "good" or "bad", in and of itself. I have already told you this repeatedly. Why are you asking me again?

So why have you been ranting and raging about something you believe to be neither good nor bad for the last 9 pages?

Comedy gold.

@dj2becker said
So why have you been ranting and raging about something you believe to be neither good nor bad for the last 9 pages? .

I haven't been ranting at all. I have questioned the disconnect between Christian ideology and the use of the word "humility" to describe the underpinning of the beliefs that many Christians hold.

This questioning has been met with all manner of rhetorical gimmicks - these two latest dishonest ones of yours being cases in point: [1] that I have been supposedly ranting when I have been posting normally, and [2] your repetition of the already rebutted suggestion that my argument is about whether humility is "good" or "bad", which it is not.

@fmf said
I haven't been ranting at all. I have questioned the disconnect between Christian ideology and the use of the word "humility" to describe the underpinning of the beliefs that many Christians hold.

This questioning has been met with all manner of rhetorical gimmicks - these two latest dishonest ones of yours being cases in point: [1] that I have been supposedly ranting when I ...[text shortened]... rebutted suggestion that my argument is about whether humility is "good" or "bad", which it is not.

When discussing Christian beliefs you refer to it as 'arrogant and conceited and egotistical'. You said it's the diametrical opposite of humility. If humility is neither good nor bad is the 'opposite of humility' also neither good nor bad?

@dj2becker said
When discussing Christian beliefs you refer to it as 'arrogant and conceited and egotistical'. You said it's the diametrical opposite of humility. If humility is neither good nor bad is the 'opposite of humility' also neither good nor bad?

Why are you aking me again? Like I have already said, I have no moral ideology that I attach to "humility" per se ~ nor its opposite for that matter. As far as I am concerned, where there is no deception, no harm, and no coercion, people can engage in "humility"- or its opposite, as I said before - and, in and of itself - we would not be talking of "good" or "bad".

@fmf said
Why are you aking me again? Like I have already said, I have no moral ideology that I attach to "humility" per se ~ nor its opposite for that matter. As far as I am concerned, where there is no deception, no harm, and no coercion, people can engage in "humility"- or its opposite, as I said before - and, in and of itself - we would not be talking of "good" or "bad".

You are above such things as pride and humility, then turn around and find faults with those that say they matter?

@kellyjay said
You are above such things as pride and humility, then turn around and find faults with those that say they matter?

I am arguing that there is a disconnect between what you say you believe about yourself and others - the result of your ideology - and the fact that you attach the word "humility" to it. I have not suggested that I am "above such things" - that's just a red herring. The error you are making is the self-deception that your incorrect use of the word "humility" causes.

@fmf said
I am arguing that there is a disconnect between what you say you believe about yourself and others - the result of your ideology - and the fact that you attach the word "humility" to it. I have not suggested that I am "above such things" - that's just a red herring. The error you are making is the self-deception that your incorrect use of the word "humility" causes.

And why exactly does this 'disconnect' matter to you so much?

@dj2becker said
And why exactly does this 'disconnect' matter to you so much?

It only matters in so far as it's interesting to me and it's something to discuss. Presumably, judging by how many times you have posted, you think the same - that my thoughts on the alleged disconnect are interesting and so it's something to discuss.

@fmf said
I am arguing that there is a disconnect between what you say you believe about yourself and others - the result of your ideology - and the fact that you attach the word "humility" to it. I have not suggested that I am "above such things" - that's just a red herring. The error you are making is the self-deception that your incorrect use of the word "humility" causes.

When you say the word humility, how is it defined? I defined my use, what is yours since you think it doesn’t apply?

@kellyjay said
When you say the word humility, how is it defined? I defined my use, what is yours since you think it doesn’t apply?

You simply asserted that the Christian ethos is one of humility. But key elements of your ideology are obviously immodest and seek to set yourself apart from - and superior to - people who are not members of your religion. Humility is a modest or low view of oneself. The stuff you say about yourself is the opposite of this.

@fmf said
You simply asserted that the Christian ethos is one of humility. But key elements of your ideology are obviously immodest and seek to set yourself apart from - and superior to - people who are not members of your religion. Humility is a modest or low view of oneself. The stuff you say about yourself is the opposite of this.

Claiming I am a sinner not worthy of the gift God gives, is prideful?