Originally posted by Rajk999Repent and believe that is what Jesus initially preached. Before you repent and believe you cannot obey his commands. Faith is the first step that you want to skip. You are putting the cart before the horse.
You are now shamefully back-peddaling.
What are the core teachings of Christ and is it FAITH?
09 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThe bible says this where:
Repent and believe that is what Jesus initially preached. Before you repent and believe you cannot obey his commands. Faith is the first step that you want to skip. You are putting the cart before the horse.
Before you repent and believe you cannot obey his commands. Faith is the first step that you want to skip. You are putting the cart before the horse
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkMaybe you should actually read what Jesus had to say about that in its entirety:
Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commands. Does an unbeliever love Jesus?
John 14
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
Note the opening sentence. Cleary Jesus is saying that those who keep his commandments are the ones who love Him. It's not about professing ones love or believing one loves Him, it's about keeping his commandments.
So, yes, an "unbeliever" who keeps His commandments does love Him. In fact, he is a true "believer" as opposed to those who claim to love Him, but do not keep His commandments.
What's also interesting is that Jesus says KEEP His commandments - not just try to follow His commandments. Yet many Christians seem to think that they love Jesus even though they don't KEEP his commandments, i.e., they continue to sin.
10 Dec 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo tell how would an unbeliever even know what the commands of Christ were never mind follow them?
Maybe you should actually read what Jesus had to say about that in its entirety:
[quote]John 14
[b]21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are ...[text shortened]... k that they love Jesus even though they don't KEEP his commandments, i.e., they continue to sin.[/b]
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkPerhaps the idea is that the commands are written in their hearts by Christ/God. It seems that this idea has been put to you over and over and over again and yet here you are asking again as if you simply didn't read posts that were addressed to you.
So tell how would an unbeliever even know what the commands of Christ were never mind follow them?
10 Dec 16
Originally posted by FMFMan was originally created in the image of God, and even though that image is now warped and damaged by sin, we still have an instinctive knowledge of the true God, and of right and wrong ("His law written in our hearts", Romans 2:15). For the unsaved, I do not see that the Bible says that God PUTS His law in their hearts, so much as there is still some knowledge LEFT of His law, from a time when all people knew God.
Perhaps the idea is that the commands are written in their hearts by Christ/God. It seems that this idea has been put to you over and over and over again and yet here you are asking again as if you simply didn't read posts that were addressed to you.
The verses in the Bible which speak about God actually PUTTING His laws in our hearts, are speaking about when we come to faith in Jesus Christ and are born again. Even the references in the Old Testament are referring to the New Covenant.
• Ezekiel 36:25-27 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a NEW HEART and put a NEW SPIRIT within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes (laws), and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."
• Hebrews 10:16 "'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,'says the Lord. 'I will PUT my LAWS into their HEARTS, and in their MINDS I will write them."
http://www.loveliftedmerecovery.com/Bible%20Studies/questions_answers/gods_law_in_hearts.pdf
10 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThe fact that you can copy paste some text from a web site somewhere that says something you happen to agree with does not really excuse you for pretending not to understand [or pretending that no one has explained] the idea about Romans 2:15 you disagree with here. Disagreeing is one thing, but your constant disingenuous repetition of questions that people have already answered is dreary and disrespectful.
So tell how would an unbeliever even know what the commands of Christ were never mind follow them?
10 Dec 16
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFIt is quite obvious that Rajks interpretation of Romans 2:15 is not correct in light of the other scriptures that I have quoted. Or do you still agree with Rajks interpretation?
The fact that you can copy paste some text from a web site somewhere that says something you happen to agree with does not really excuse you for pretending not to understand [or pretending that no one has explained] the idea about Romans 2:15 you disagree with here. Disagreeing is one thing, but your constant disingenuous repetition of questions that people have already answered is dreary and disrespectful.
10 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkLike I said, disagreeing with Rajk999 is all well and good, but your incessant repetition of questions while pretending that people haven't already answered them is like an ever present mains hum of deceit. You asked him to tell you how an unbeliever would know what the commands of Christ were... even though you already knew that his interpretation of the scriptures is different from yours. You were - once again - pretending that he hadn't explained his view and that you didn't know what his view was, as if that's genuine discourse. As for your interpretation being this or Rajk999's interpretation being that, I couldn't really care less. What's interesting to me is your constant, lumbering, disingenuous behaviour.
It is quite obvious that Rajks interpretation of Romans 2:15 is not correct in light of the other scriptures that I have quoted. Or do you still agree with Rajks interpretation?
10 Dec 16
Originally posted by FMFI was specifically talking about the commands of Christ this time round. The last time we discussed this he was talking about pagans knowing what is right and wrong, which is not the same as knowing the exact commands of Christ.
Like I said, disagreeing with Rajk999 is all well and good, but your incessant repetition of questions while pretending that people haven't already answered them is like an ever present mains hum of deceit. You asked him to tell you how an unbeliever would know what the commands of Christ were... even though you already knew that his interpretation of the script ...[text shortened]... really care less. What's interesting to me is your constant, lumbering, disingenuous behaviour.
10 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkAnd I am specifically talking about month after month of this behaviour by you during which there have been countless times Rajk999 has told you exactly what his view is and has explained it. You pretending this isn't so, time and time again, is a very insincere kind of discourse.
I was specifically talking about the commands of Christ this time round. The last time we discussed this he was talking about pagans knowing what is right and wrong, which is not the same as knowing the exact commands of Christ.