The Way of Righteousness.

Originally posted by FMF
So, do you believe that those Christians who believe they are already "saved" because of [1] their belief in Christ ~ and because [2] their "sins" have already been forgiven by Christ's sacrifice ~ are mistaken?

I believe I am not going to allow you to walk me down some road that will cause division among fellow Christians. Sorry.

Originally posted by leunammi
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Presumably there is a longer version of this answer that you are choosing to withhold? 😛

Originally posted by FMF
Presumably there is a longer version of this answer that you are choosing to withhold? 😛

Was in the middle of editing, phone froze up.

Originally posted by leunammi
I believe I am not going to allow you to walk me down some road that will cause division among fellow Christians. Sorry.

I'm interested in the debate over this (and I was back in my years as a Christian too). If there are Christians 'preaching' that they are "already saved" regardless of their "sin", it would be mere "division" to point out their error and not something to address on a debate and discussion forum? That seems a bit odd.

Originally posted by leunammi
I believe I am not going to allow you to walk me down some road that will cause division among fellow Christians. Sorry.

And yet you are motivated to be involved in "division" with your fellow Christian Rajk999 whose stance is, at the very least, somewhat closer to yours, and yet the self-serving notions of those Christians who are, shall we say, "down some road" with regard to being supposedly already "saved" regardless of their "sin" would appear to be more corrosive to the integrity of your religion.

Originally posted by FMF
And yet you are motivated to be involved in "division" with your fellow Christian Rajk999 whose stance is, at the very least, somewhat closer to yours, and yet the self-serving notions of those Christians who are, shall we say, "down some road" with regard to being supposedly already "saved" regardless of their "sin" would appear to be more corrosive to the integrity of your religion.

Raj made a statement about others... he made a statement about himself... to me there is a conflict in how he applied scripture, I asked a question, he went in the other direction and ended with an insult. For some reason there is a problem with addressing my question, I am fine with that... no hard feelings. Conversation over!

Originally posted by leunammi
Raj made a statement about others... he made a statement about himself... to me there is a conflict in how he applied scripture, I asked a question, he went in the other direction and ended with an insult. For some reason there is a problem with addressing my question, I am fine with that... no hard feelings. Conversation over!

Pusillanimous behaviour in a discussion about Christian teaching, when faced with teaching that deviates from or contradicts yours in a crucial way ~ whether you like it or not ~ is part of the discourse. Your cowering away from discussion and debate, when fellow Christians are 'preaching' an incoherent doctrine of unilateral self-forgiveness rooted in (for all practical intents and purposes) them thinking certain stuff about themselves, is part of your Christian ministry here.

Originally posted by FMF
Pusillanimous behaviour in a discussion about Christian teaching, when faced with teaching that deviates from or contradicts yours in a crucial way ~ whether you like it or not ~ is part of the discourse. Your cowering away from discussion and debate, when fellow Christians are 'preaching' an incoherent doctrine of unilateral self-forgiveness rooted in them thinking stuff about themselves, is part of your Christian ministry here.

Please my friend, don't presume to tell me what my ministry is.

Cowering away from discussion? I am asking questions head on of something stated, presumably to be discussed, that is not cowering. Perhaps you had Raj in mind for the first part of your response?

Personally, the discussion has grown old and I really don't care anymore. The lack of an answer from Raj to a question regarding something he said followed by an application of scripture and insult tells me all that I need to know. I am fine with that, and it does not change how I view him, that being a brother in Christ with different views.

Now I am tired.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You and other Christians like yourself are much like the Jews in the time of Paul. They could not bear that Gentiles were also going to be able to get into the Kingdom of God. Your statement is the result of petty jealousy, sheer arrogance and complete ignorance of the meaning of Romans 2 14-16.

According to Paul, the Jews have an advantage over the Gen ...[text shortened]... ested in those whose heart is with Him and who lives according to His precepts and commandments.

Where exactly does the Bible say that gentiles that did not have faith in Christ are able to get into the Kingdom of God? You assume that. When you are confronted by a passage of scripture that indicates that faith is essential for salvation you claim only to follow the teaching of Christ, yet you quote other passages of scripture when it suits you. Give me one example of a Christian on these forums that promotes a doctrine that encourages sin. You always make claims but never substantiate them.

Originally posted by leunammi
Please my friend, don't presume to tell me what my ministry is.

And yet I am one of the people witnessing it.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk

Where exactly does the Bible say that gentiles that did not have faith in Christ are able to get into the Kingdom of God? You assume that...

Why do you repeatedly ignore Romans or write as though you are unaware of them, despite the relevant verses being repeatedly quoted to you?

Is Romans one of those books in the bible that you deny, due to its message not being what you want to hear? (I would encourage to sit down and read though Romans 2:13 onward and really ponder its meaning).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Why do you repeatedly ignore Romans or write as though you are unaware of them, despite the relevant verses being repeatedly quoted to you?

Is Romans one of those books in the bible that you deny, due to its message not being what you want to hear? (I would encourage to sit down and read though Romans 2:13 onward and really ponder its meaning).

Cut to the chase, what exactly am I missing, I have read Romans.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Cut to the chase, what exactly am I missing, I have read Romans.

Here we go again.

Originally posted by leunammi
Please my friend, don't presume to tell me what my ministry is.

Cowering away from discussion? I am asking questions head on of something stated, presumably to be discussed, that is not cowering. Perhaps you had Raj in mind for the first part of your response?

Personally, the discussion has grown old and I really don't care anymore. The lack of an ...[text shortened]... t change how I view him, that being a brother in Christ with different views.

Now I am tired.

Lets try again. Tell me what you want to know about the opening post. I will clear it up. I really do not understand what the problem is.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Where exactly does the Bible say that gentiles that did not have faith in Christ are able to get into the Kingdom of God? You assume that. When you are confronted by a passage of scripture that indicates that faith is essential for salvation you claim only to follow the teaching of Christ, yet you quote other passages of scripture when it suits you. Give ...[text shortened]... hat promotes a doctrine that encourages sin. You always make claims but never substantiate them.

Sonship, Divegeester, Checkbaiter, Josephw, GrampaBobby, just to name a few, have all said that if a man proclaims his faith in Christ with his mouth, he is saved eternally and nothing he does can change it.

The churches that preach such a doctrine in my opinion are encouraging a life of sin, because they have removed the consequences of sin.