30 Jun 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo you do think that ToO has not overcome sin himself? Do you think the "truth has set him free?" You didn't say.
I think I would side with ThinkOfOne on this one. You are entitled to ask anything, but not necessarily entitled to an answer.
Though it is true that whether or not a preacher practices what they preach can tell you a lot about whether they believe what they preach, it does not necessarily reflect on the validity of the message.
If ThinkOfOne is able t ...[text shortened]... o follows the teachings of Jesus (as you claim) then those are not the teachings of Jesus."
Whilst I agree that someone is perfectly entitled to not answer any question , I do think that it's quite reasonable for someone to expect their own positiion to be reflected back to them.
ToO either has the truth or he doesn't. (In jesus' own words ) either the "Son has set him free" or he hasn't. If he has the truth then he just needs to say it , if he doesn't have the truth then ...erhem....what is all this gas he's coming out with??
The point is that Jesus was very clear that truth was knowing him. He was always saying things like " you do not hear the truth , because you do not know me , nor my Father". Jesus taught that we are to embody truth and it's not something to be known "intellectually".
In Christian terms a person is either "in" the truth or not. My question is this. If the truth (the Son) has not set ToO free then what does he really know anyway?
Fragmented , unintegrated knowledge may work in science but in Christianity it's different matter. You need to think about this because it's one of the great atheist weopens used against right wing fundies , Catholicism etc . The next time a right wing preacher is found guilty of embezzling and adultery would you really allow me to say .........
" Though it is true that whether or not a preacher practices what they preach can tell you a lot about whether they believe what they preach, it does not necessarily reflect on the validity of the message."
??????
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterQuite right. I did not say.
So you do think that ToO has not overcome sin himself? Do you think the "truth has set him free?" You didn't say.
I honestly do not know TOO well enough to say whether the "truth has set him free" and would only be generalizing about whether I think anyone can overcome sin. But then I don't really understand what 'sin' really is, and it is quite possible that you and TOO have different understandings of the word.
ToO either has the truth or he doesn't. (In jesus' own words ) either the "Son has set him free" or he hasn't.
Now you are quoting Jesus way out of context. What is the full verse, and why did you feel the need to fill it in with your own words?
And even worse, if you are right, then only one or two people at the most actually have the truth, and I rather doubt that it is you.
Jesus taught that we are to embody truth and it's not something to be known "intellectually".
Do you have a verse?
In Christian terms a person is either "in" the truth or not.
Again, that means that the vast majority must be not.
My question is this. If the truth (the Son) has not set ToO free then what does he really know anyway?
Can we dismiss you just as easily?
The next time a right wing preacher is found guilty of embezzling and adultery would you really allow me to say .........
" Though it is true that whether or not a preacher practices what they preach can tell you a lot about whether they believe what they preach, it does not necessarily reflect on the validity of the message."
Of course I would and you know it. If you disagree then you had better stop being a Christian because I can guarantee that I can find at least one example of a preacher who preaches Christianity that does not practice what they preach.
Next you will be telling us to give up on Democracy because Mugabe is not practising it.
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by twhitehead"Next you will be telling us to give up on Democracy because Mugabe is not practising it." -----whitey----
Quite right. I did not say.
I honestly do not know TOO well enough to say whether the "truth has set him free" and would only be generalizing about whether I think anyone can overcome sin. But then I don't really understand what 'sin' really is, and it is quite possible that you and TOO have different understandings of the word.
[b]ToO either has the ...[text shortened]... will be telling us to give up on Democracy because Mugabe is not practising it.
LOOOOOOOL!!!!!! You missed the point completely! I think it's Mugabe I would give up on not democracy.
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadJesus taught that we are to embody truth and it's not something to be known "intellectually".--KM
Quite right. I did not say.
I honestly do not know TOO well enough to say whether the "truth has set him free" and would only be generalizing about whether I think anyone can overcome sin. But then I don't really understand what 'sin' really is, and it is quite possible that you and TOO have different understandings of the word.
[b]ToO either has the ...[text shortened]... will be telling us to give up on Democracy because Mugabe is not practising it.
Do you have a verse? --WHITEY
Response----
Something to do with planks and specks I believe.......
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou don't sound too sure. Worried that TOO will call you on it again?
Jesus taught that we are to embody truth and it's not something to be known "intellectually".--KM
Do you have a verse? --WHITEY
Response----
Something to do with planks and specks I believe.......
The only verses I know about planks and specks certainly say nothing about not knowing things intellectually. But then I admit I don't know many verses and don't have one of those decoder ring thingys.
30 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDo you not believe that the Lord gave Paul just as much understanding as what Jesus had/has about salvation? If he didn't then why did he have Paul as a messenger of his Word?
I see the "life" that you lose as being the "life of the flesh". I see "sin" as being "bad fruit". If you have lost "life of the flesh" you will only bear "good fruit". If you have not lost "life of the flesh" you will continue to "commit sin" and remain a "slave to sin" and bear "bad fruit".
John 8:32-36
... "If you continue in My word, then you are
I'm thinking Jesus understood quite a bit more than Paul.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
You can not just take what Jesus said and through out the rest of the Bible. If something dosn't seem to fit you need to do more studying and prayer. May even see what the origional words ment at the time it was writen or what the words ment at the time of translation.
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by UzumakiAiYou are looking at it all wrong. The good trees are the ones that bear fruit that can be eaten, the bad trees are the ones that bear fruit that is poisonous and/or deadly.
I have a bit of a problem with that. I have known plenty of trees. None of them were good or bad. They produced good and bad fruit. They preformed better based on what they were given. Fertilizer, water, humidity, region, and type of plant, went into deciding how good the fruit produced was. And furthermore, I know people who have liked fruit that I though ...[text shortened]... e that a god with any true depth of knowledge would construct such a weak one, metaphor or not.
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by pritybettaIs it your position that Paul's words supercede the words of Jesus?
Do you not believe that the Lord gave Paul just as much understanding as what Jesus had/has about salvation? If he didn't then why did he have Paul as a messenger of his Word?
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
You can not just take wh ...[text shortened]... gional words ment at the time it was writen or what the words ment at the time of translation.
The words of Jesus are quite explicit. What do you make of them?
30 Jun 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneAnd what is to become of the people Christ taught when Paul (Saul) was persecuting the Christians. Those poor people were not taught the correct doctrine.
Is it your position that Paul's words supercede the words of Jesus?
The words of Jesus are quite explicit. What do you make of them?
What a joke !
30 Jun 08
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo, Pauls position does not supercede the words of Jesus, they have to be harmonize with them.
Is it your position that Paul's words supercede the words of Jesus?
The words of Jesus are quite explicit. What do you make of them?
The words of Jesus are quite expicit because he was talking to the scribes and Pharasees. Paul's words are to the brotheren.
01 Jul 08
3 edits
Originally posted by pritybettaThese verses certainly weren't directed at the Scribes and Pharisees:
No, Pauls position does not supercede the words of Jesus, they have to be harmonize with them.
The words of Jesus are quite expicit because he was talking to the scribes and Pharasees. Paul's words are to the brotheren.
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.... Depart from me, you who work iniquity.
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."..."Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever;"
John 14:24
Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my words"
01 Jul 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterI bet he spills his seed frequently, so my vote is for talking the talk.
My question is not about this theology or this issue but about whether you think ToOne has actually overcome sin himself in the way he preaches about using the words of Jesus?
So has ToO overcome sin and gained salvation through righteousness? Or is he just talking the talk without walking the walk?
01 Jul 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneJohn 8:32-36 - You missed out the bit about " and if the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed " Oooops!
These verses certainly weren't directed at the Scribes and Pharisees:
Matthew 7:21-23
[b]Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.... Depart from me, you who work iniquity.
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If ...[text shortened]... to him, and make our abode with him. [b]He that loveth me not keepeth not my words"[/b]