To our atheist friends

Originally posted by FMF
[b]If you have uttered an inaccuracy? Just retract it robbie, if you're going to. No need for "ifs". Go ahead. You said you will.[/b]

I retract all inaccuracies of statement, in the past, at present, into the future and
beyond.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Medical science has provided incontrovertible proof that sodomy is
unnatural.

Yes, but "Medical science" has not declared homosexuality immoral. That it is immoral is your opinion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think nothing of it FMF, a mere fly buzzing around my Chardonnay.

Chardonnay is alchohol and prohibited in many religions. It is bad for health. I request that you stop drinking it forever or face the reasonable consequence of execution.

Or please explain why my request is unreasonable. I don't need to explain why mine is a unreasonable position. It is clear in my religious text this alcohol is a sin.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Chardonnay is alchohol and prohibited in many religions. It is bad for health. I request that you stop drinking it forever or face the reasonable consequence of execution.

Or please explain why my request is unreasonable. I don't need to explain why mine is a unreasonable position. It is clear in my religious text this alcohol is a sin.

sorry, its bad for my health, how so, i always thought a glass of red wine was good for
ones health, it breaks down fats, oxygenates the blood, makes one feel relaxed,
makes one feel joyful, hardly bad for ones health and lastly but not least, God has not
prohibited the use of alcohol in moderation!

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, but "Medical science" has not declared homosexuality immoral. That it is immoral is your opinion.

Medical science has proven that its unnatural, ,its not about me FMF.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I retract all inaccuracies of statement, in the past, at present, into the future and
beyond.

It is you who believes that "God" spoke to the Israelites. I do not. This crucial difference between us is why you think that the Mosaic Law has some moral significance with regard to homosexuality, while I do not. Your "inaccuracy" about me stating that God spoke to the Israelites went very conveniently to the heart of your superstitious assertions about you knowing what 'God's instructions' are, so I welcome you retracting your attempt to blur this fundamental difference between your belief system and my belief system.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Medical science has proven that its unnatural, ,its not about me FMF.

That homosexuality is immoral is your opinion. Your opinion is what makes it about you, robbie. You wanting to justify discrimination against homosexuals based on your opinion of what is and isn't moral makes this about you, robbie.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I did not say i condoned it, i merely said that the severity acted as a deterrent. I
would rather not watch your video if you dont mind, i dont really like watching violence
of any description. Asking a person to desist from homosexuality is not an
unreasonable request, you have not said why, other than to state that its no ones
business, hardly a reason at all, more a simple statement of opinion.

You've still avoided my question -

Do you think it was right that children were condemned to death by stoning?

Now grow a pair of balls and watch the video and tell me how you feel after watching a 19 year old girl being stoned to death by a mopb of men. Do you think that was 'right'?

Yes, it's my opinion, but that is all you have offered also. Your opinion is that the Bible is Gods word and his commands should be followed.

Now watch the video.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You've still avoided my question -

Do you think it was right that children were condemned to death by stoning?

Now grow a pair of balls and watch the video and tell me how you fel after watching a 19 year old girl being stoned to death by a mopb of men.

Yes, it's my opinion, but that is all you have offered also. Your opinion is that the Bible is Gods word and his commands should be followed.

Now watch the video.

I think it was severe and acted like a deterrent, do i think it was right, nah, i wouldn't
have done it, that's for sure. Nah dude, i cannot watch stuff like that, really, it affects
me too badly, really.

Originally posted by FMF
That homosexuality is immoral is your opinion. Your opinion is what makes it about you, robbie. You wanting to justify discrimination against homosexuals based on your opinion of what is and isn't moral makes this about you, robbie.

no FMF, its not about me, i am attempting, despite attempts to drag the thread to the
level of a tabloid newspaper, to portray the Biblical perspective and ascertain
whether it was reasonable for God to ask the Israelites to desist from certain sexual
practices, it is my opinion, that i think God was reasonable to expect the Israelites to
abide by them.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no FMF, its not about me, i am attempting, despite attempts to drag the thread to the
level of a tabloid newspaper, to portray the Biblical perspective and ascertain
whether it was reasonable for God to ask the Israelites to desist from certain sexual
practices, it is my opinion, that i think God was reasonable to expect the Israelites to
abide by them.

Interesting. Is it reasonable for God to ask the Israelites to desist? Sure. The Israelites acknowledged that their God is supreme and they must obey his word so there it is. As far as people that are not Israelites ... they have every right to say mind your own business.

Originally posted by Ullr
Interesting. Is it reasonable for God to ask the Israelites to desist? Sure. The Israelites acknowledged that their God is supreme and they must obey his word so there it is. As far as people that are not Israelites ... they have every right to say mind your own business.

Yes this aspect of Gods sovereignty and the acknowledgement of it i had not considered.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think it was severe and acted like a deterrent, do i think it was right, nah, i wouldn't
have done it, that's for sure. Nah dude, i cannot watch stuff like that, really, it affects
me too badly, really.

But does it act like a deterrent?

As i pointed out earlier, Iran has the same punishments for adultery that were contained in the Mosaic Law, yet Iran executes (mainly) women convicted of adultery every year.

Do you support Irans execution of women convicted of adultery by stoning them to death?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no FMF, its not about me, i am attempting, despite attempts to drag the thread to the
level of a tabloid newspaper, to portray the Biblical perspective and ascertain
whether it was reasonable for God to ask the Israelites to desist from certain sexual
practices, it is my opinion, that i think God was reasonable to expect the Israelites to
abide by them.

I find whole swathes of the Mosaic Law morally repugnant, including its "well documented" mandates with regard to homosexuality. It is irrelevant that the Israelites - or you, for that matter - believed it to contain 'God's instructions' for humans.

Your opinion about "God [being] reasonable" is noted but, as for me, I personally welcome the lifting of the darkness that you seem to find so "reasonable" and welcome the fact that humans can now - increasingly - reject and protect themselves from the whole mindmap that the Mosaic Law and nostalgia about the Mosaic Law represent.

It's happening gradually here in [mostly] Muslim Indonesia, I am happy to report.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
But does it act like a deterrent?

As i pointed out earlier, Iran has the same punishments for adultery that were contained in the Mosaic Law, yet Iran executes (mainly) women convicted of adultery every year.

Do you support Irans execution of women convicted of adultery by stoning them to death?

Like the Pakistani laws for blasphemy i find that these are often used to settle petty
regional arguments or family conflicts, or as a means of getting vengeance. In the
Mosaic Law, both parties were to be put to death, this is something quite different from
the Islamic practice, which is severely biased against women in both principle and
practice.

I do not support the execution of women convicted of adultery, i merely think that its a
reasonable request for God to ask the Israelites to remain faithful to their marital
partners.