To the World's Religious Leaders

Originally posted by Varqa
As I read the news this morning, I am amazed at what the religious leaders are getting away with. The Catholic Church needs insurance to cover all the sexual abuse cases. Islamic leaders promote suicide bombing which kill and maim innocent women and children going about their lives.
I am reminded of this letter which so elegantly tries to remind the religious ...[text shortened]... ke a moment to read it and perhaps we can discuss it.

http://www.uga.edu/~bahai/wrldldrs.html

Perhaps Satan is winning afterall?

Originally posted by Stregone
Perhaps Satan is winning afterall?

Rest assured that as long as we have breath and have hope he is loosing.

Originally posted by whodey
How many works does he desire for you to be "saved"?

What a totally absurd question !!
Christ asked for works. Are you doubting that Christ asked for works ?
What difference does it make how much ?
Next you will ask what kind of works. Then you will want to know how often.

Its the sign of a FOOL... A LAZY MAN ... that wants a reward so great as salvation. .... and all he as to do is to SAY WITH HIS MOUTH that he accepts and believes in Christ. And Yes .. you have to believe... but salvation does not come to you if you dont have works to support your beleif . THERE MUST BE GOOD WORKS.

Youall can fool yourself all you want Christ wants WORKS.
Please try to refute that or keep quiet.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What a totally absurd question !!
Christ asked for works. Are you doubting that Christ asked for works ?
What difference does it make how much ?
Next you will ask what kind of works. Then you will want to know how often.

Its the sign of a FOOL... A LAZY MAN ... that wants a reward so great as salvation. .... and all he as to do is to SAY WITH HIS MOU ...[text shortened]... ll can fool yourself all you want Christ wants WORKS.
Please try to refute that or keep quiet.

No, it is an honest question. You are the one insisting that good works is required to enter heaven. Therefore, how many? Is it one, or two, or three? Can I meet my quota and then take it easy, or am I to feel obligated to continue or miss out?

Originally posted by whodey
No, it is an honest question. You are the one insisting that good works is required to enter heaven. Therefore, how many? Is it one, or two, or three? Can I meet my quota and then take it easy, or am I to feel obligated to continue or miss out?

Christ said (for the last time) that he wants good works. Please read the Bible (latter part of Matt 25 and other portions as well). Christ did not say how many. Is He supposed to ? Are you doubting Christ ? If you are and you are a Christian you are treading on dangerous ground.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said (for the last time) that he wants good works. Please read the Bible (latter part of Matt 25 and other portions as well). Christ did not say how many. Is He supposed to ? Are you doubting Christ ? If you are and you are a Christian you are treading on dangerous ground.

Well naturally he wants good works. I want good works, you want good works, we all want good works to be done but do these good works save you? Do you do them to be saved or because you love the Lord and desire to please him?

My take is that if you are a follower of Christ good works will follow rather than being a criteria for enterance into heaven. If your way works then you can enter heaven without ever placing his faith in Christ. All you need to do it good works. In fact, all other religions in the world act in such a way. You simply hope your good works outweigh your bad works in the end so that you make it into heaven.

Originally posted by whodey
..............if you are a follower of Christ good works will follow rather than being a criteria for enterance into heaven. ....

Do us both a favour. Dont bring other religions into this yet.

You have to be seriously joking if you think people who SAY WITH THEIR MOUTH they are believers, go ahead and do good works.
Tell me you not serious. 90% of the Christians I know dont have a clue what is good works. Many of them are the most selfish arrogant materialistic people in the world.

Christ defined (for people like you Woodey) what good works are. Read it in Matt 25. He was crystal clear. He did not mince words. You CANNOT mistinterpret it. Paul can say whatever. He cannot overrule the teachings of Christ. Punto Finale.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do us both a favour. Dont bring other religions into this yet.

You have to be seriously joking if you think people who SAY WITH THEIR MOUTH they are believers, go ahead and do good works.
Tell me you not serious. 90% of the Christians I know dont have a clue what is good works. Many of them are the most selfish arrogant materialistic people in the world. ...[text shortened]... stinterpret it. Paul can say whatever. He cannot overrule the teachings of Christ. Punto Finale.

Well then, I hope you meet your quota.

Originally posted by whodey
Well then, I hope you meet your quota.

Christ is the judge. Not Paul or You for that matter. He knows what the quota is.
Dont place too much emphasis on the teachings of Paul especially when it conficts with the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Thank God, faith doesn't have to wait for science. Faith itself proves that Jesus Christ is Truth. 😀

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb. 11:1).

Yes but faith is also what drives the sicide bomber.

We must have faith and logic working together or we can be biffetted in all directions.

Originally posted by Varqa
Yes but faith is also what drives the sicide bomber.

We must have faith and logic working together or we can be biffetted in all directions.

The suicide bomber's faith is dissimilar to that of a person whose trust rests in Christ.

A suicide bomber's faith is legalistic. That is, he must perform a required duty in order to be deemed worthy by his god for entrance into paradise. Legalism is a reward and punishment driven religiosity. If I do something bad or unacceptable, then I am hell bound. If I do something good or acceptable, then I am heaven bound. I might be heaven bound today, but hell bound tomorrow, and then heaven bound again the day after that, and on and on.

Within such an ideology there is no comfort, security or peace, and that want of comfort, security and peace drives people to fanaticism. Only in fanatic thought and behavior can a person caught in that kind of religious bondage begin to convince himself that he is secure. ("Fanaticism is the conscious compensation for doubt." -- Aldous Huxley.) Why? Because we are human and we need comfort, security and peace in order to function healthily and keep our sanity; to not desire it you'd have to be dead.

I'm not talking about material comforts necessarily, I'm talking about assurances of fidelity and love from God. A message from God along the lines of: even if everyone hates you, that he will always love you; that even if you screw up and fall short, he will still take you in; that there is nothing you can do or need to do to earn his acceptance and love.

Without such assurances, people of faith are bound to become fanatical and delusional. Even within the Christian community legalism rears its ugly head, regardless of how contrary it is to the Good News. Becaue there's nothing Good about news that God requires you to be good enough to get into heaven. That's not even news; that's old news -- yesterday's news.

The Good News of the Gospel is that Christ died once for all time for your sins and you are invited to be reconciled to God the Father through Jesus Christ by faith alone, not works. Come unto me, Christ says, all you that labor and are heavy laden AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST.

So, it is not so much faith and logic that keeps you on the straight and narrow, as it is what you are placing your faith in. Is it in yourself and your ability to perform well enough to be accepted by God? Or do you place your faith in the Truth; that is, in Jesus Christ? One leads to fanaticism, the other leads to rest.

Originally posted by Rajk999
It is entirely possible to have faith and belief and NOT DO GOOD WORKS.

I think Christ (unlike yourself) knew that there are many that will SAY they believe and SAY they have faith but they do not practice it.

As far as Christ is concerned HE WANTS PEOPLE WITH GOOD WORKS IN THE KINGDOM.

He said that in crystal clear language over and over and over ...[text shortened]... oking for.

All your fancy analysis is worthless if you do not accept that Christ wants WORKS.

It is entirely possible to have faith and belief and NOT DO GOOD WORKS.

If you actually read what I wrote, then you would have noticed that I expressed the same conviction. I agree with you.

As far as Christ is concerned HE WANTS PEOPLE WITH GOOD WORKS IN THE KINGDOM.

Again, on this point I agree with you.

All your fancy analysis is worthless if you do not accept that Christ wants WORKS.

I accept it, sir. But you won't have any good works unless in the first place your faith is sincere and heartfelt. Rest assured, it is impossible NOT to have good works if your faith is genuine. "A good tree CANNOT bring forth bad fruit..." Therefore, faith saves, not works.

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It's telling that, without even knowing whodey or I, that you judge us to be fruitless servants of Christ. Do you realize how audacious that is? How judgmental? Did not Christ say, "Judge not," just a few verses prior to the verses you quoted? Yet here you are, berating us for our lack of good works, when you yourself aren't even doing what Christ asks of you! What hypocrisy! Repent, brother.