Trinitarians: Does not believing the 'trinity' lead to damnation?

Originally posted by divegeester
No, my post has nothing to do with you or trinitarianism.

That is too bad.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
no, you know about it because it was a church dogma that was taught to you and the church dogma of the trinity was invented over time and voted on by a close margin under the watchful eye of a pagan emperor.

it does not exist in the bible or in any of christ's teachings.

The doctrine of the Trinity was written by the Christian Church to counter heresies like what you are putting out today. The idea is somewhat hidden in the Old Testament, but is revealed in the New testament.

Originally posted by galveston75
No not in the sence that you do. Remember that word is also not in the Bible? But the taking up so to speak is not for all who are Christians. Again this is reserved only for the 144,000 that are taken up in spirit form to heaven immediatly after their death. This is also where the term "being born again" comes in. They are reborn to a new spiritual life.

Obviously, you do not understand just what I believe or don't believe. Personally, I do not believe any Christians will be "spirited away" in any sort of "rapture" to avoid the worst of the Tribulation. But then I do believe in the concept of a chosen body of persons who were martyred during the Tribulation for their faith. You can't be martyred for Christ if you're yanked out just before it gets bad. And to say that these are the only ones who are "born again" is ridiculous.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well yes you are right as it had been around before it became a doctrine. And even going back farther it had been around sence Babylon. So it's influance had been around for centuries and in different forms depending on which society had it.
And Jesus and his apostles knew this about the many beliefs and customs that all the nations around the Jews pra ...[text shortened]... ld happen soon after they were gone. And exactly what they said would happen, happened.

Jesus gave warnings and instructions so we would know the truth and not fall for false teachings, like those from the Watchtower Society.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Obviously, you do not understand just what I believe or don't believe. Personally, I do not believe any Christians will be "spirited away" in any sort of "rapture" to avoid the worst of the Tribulation. But then I do believe in the concept of a chosen body of persons who were martyred during the Tribulation for their faith. You can't be martyred for Chri ...[text shortened]... gets bad. And to say that these are the only ones who are "born again" is ridiculous.

He is "caught up" in a false religious cult. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
So are you claiming to be wiser in the knowledge of God than the Church Fathers who established these creeds? I beleve Jesus gave the authority to the Church that Peter established to bind and loosen with these creeds.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus sai ...[text shortened]... t be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.

(Proverbs 3:5-7 NASB)[/b]

Not likely.

I do believe that Jesus gave authority to Peter to start His Church. Peter can't have much authority over the Church after he dies. The Athanasian Creed was written long after Peter's death and actually long after Athanasius' (of Alexandria) death as well. The second half of it was added as a political move. I'm sure Jesus would tell you that politics has no place in a religion. I also do not believe that many of the popes after Peter had authority to do much of anything, because many of them were evil men. This is the result of Satan's infiltration of the Church. Yet the Church still continues to do good work even today, despite the evil within.

The Psalms passage talks about yielding to the Lord. The LORD, not the Church.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Obviously, you do not understand just what I believe or don't believe. Personally, I do not believe any Christians will be "spirited away" in any sort of "rapture" to avoid the worst of the Tribulation. But then I do believe in the concept of a chosen body of persons who were martyred during the Tribulation for their faith. You can't be martyred for Chri ...[text shortened]... gets bad. And to say that these are the only ones who are "born again" is ridiculous.

Well then I'm open for you to show me that this being born again is open to all by scripture?
And yes you are correct, I do not know what you believe as I never said I did. This is why we have discussions here is to learn what we all believe.
If I seemed to suggest wrongly that I knew what you beleieve, I apologize.

Originally posted by RJHinds
This Arian movement was resurrected by the Watchtower Society. They have basically the same belief about Jesus. It was declared a heresy back then by the Church and it is still a heresy today. This was part of the Church's binding and loosening authority. The JWs can not continue to believe that way and be saved.

But the idea of Trinity does not change who is saved and who is not. All that is required is that you believe that Christ died for your sins and you accept Him as your Savior. Also to love the Lord God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. I don't see anything in there about a belief in Trinity. There is no reason under the sun to excommunicate those who do not believe in the Trinity. It is not nearly as important as being saved. Those who do not believe in the Trinity shall be shown the truth after the Resurrection. Then we'll all be on the same page again.

EDIT: And about this "binding and loosening authority" of the Church. Excuse me? I'm sorry, but the Church has NO say about whether I am saved or not. It is between me and my God. They can certainly choose to recognize it or not, but if their choice is driven by politics, then it is not true.

Originally posted by RJHinds
He is "caught up" in a false religious cult. 😏

You are sounding like a broken record. I guess all the others that don't believe exactly as you are in cults as well?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well then I'm open for you to show me that this being born again is open to all by scripture?
And yes you are correct, I do not know what you believe as I never said I did. This is why we have discussions here is to learn what we all believe.
If I seemed to suggest wrongly that I knew what you beleieve, I apologize.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." -- John 3:3, KJV

In the interest of saving reading time, and not boring everyone, I do not include it all here, but I would point you to all of John 3.

It speaks of being born of water, and born of Spirit. The first is baptism, the second is being born again of the Holy Spirit. And John 3:3 says this must happen before one sees the Kingdom of God, i.e. before one dies.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe they are thinking of those that are a Christian in name only.

It is this kind of talk that is the basis for my disagreements with Robbie.

How those that believe as you do are Christian, and no one else qualifies. How narrow-minded.

Originally posted by Suzianne
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." -- John 3:3, KJV

In the interest of saving reading time, and not boring everyone, I do not include it all here, but I would point you to all of John 3.

It speaks of being born of water, and born of Spirit. The first is ba ...[text shortened]... And John 3:3 says this must happen before one sees the Kingdom of God, i.e. before one dies.

So still I ask, was he speaking to all humans in general that followed him? Remember he said he had 2 groups of followers. That is the clue to figuring this out.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not likely.

I do believe that Jesus gave authority to Peter to start His Church. Peter can't have much authority over the Church after he dies. The Athanasian Creed was written long after Peter's death and actually long after Athanasius' (of Alexandria) death as well. The second half of it was added as a political move. I'm sure Jesus would tell you within.

The Psalms passage talks about yielding to the Lord. The LORD, not the Church.

So you think that authority was given only to Peter to bind and loosen, and it all ended at his death, right? How do you make this decision? Do you view anything else that Jesus said as only applying to certain disciples and not to the Church in general??? For example, is the Church supposed to teach the teachings of Jesus to all nations and baptize in the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit or is that too only for certain disciples and ends with their death.

Originally posted by Suzianne
It is this kind of talk that is the basis for my disagreements with Robbie.

How those that believe as you do are Christian, and no one else qualifies. How narrow-minded.

“Enter by the Narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the Way is Broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small, and the Way is Narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

Originally posted by galveston75
So still I ask, was he speaking to all humans in general that followed him? Remember he said he had 2 groups of followers. That is the clue to figuring this out.

Jesus came and became the bridge between God and Man for all men, not just his little country club of elitists.