24 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by duecer(Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in Gods form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
Where does it say that? what translation is that from? I resourced several, and none agree with yours
I like this one (NCV) 7 Look, Jesus is coming with the clouds, and everyone will see him, even those who stabbed him. And all peoples of the earth will cry loudly because of him. Yes, this will happen! Amen.
8 The Lord God says, "I am the Alpha and the ations that can be found cite who what where and why. those are the ones I am going to trust
24 Aug 09
In case many of you missed it: verse 7 states that jesus is coming, what does verse 8 say, shall we look? yes, let's:
Where does it say that? what translation is that from? I resourced several, and none agree with yours
I like this one (NCV) 7 Look, Jesus is coming with the clouds, and everyone will see him, even those who stabbed him. And all peoples of the earth will cry loudly because of him. Yes, this will happen! Amen.
8 The Lord God says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega. I am the One who is and was and is coming. I am the Almighty."
The subject is Jesus, the speaker is Jesus, Jesus is the Almighty
24 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by duecerPhilippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in Gods form,gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
In case many of you missed it: verse 7 states that jesus is coming, what does verse 8 say, shall we look? yes, let's:
Where does it say that? what translation is that from? I resourced several, and none agree with yours
I like this one (NCV) 7 Look, Jesus is coming with the clouds, and everyone will see him, even those who stabbed him. And all peoples of ng. I am the Almighty."
The subject is Jesus, the speaker is Jesus, Jesus is the Almighty
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieas he was in human form, but of course Rev 1:8 reveals who Christ truly is😉
(Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in Gods form, [b]gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.[/b]
24 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by duecerPhilippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in Gods form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
as he was in human form, but of course Rev 1:8 reveals who Christ truly is😉
24 Aug 09
1 edit
after his resurrection and ascension to heaven.
(1 Corinthians 15:27-28) . . .But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in Gods form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerin your dreams Duecer, in your dreams, we are still waiting for another reference where Christ is termed the Almighty, if you cannot find one then we must confess that the verse in question is with reference to Jehovah, the Almighty.
Another thread stated that niether Jawill or I had refuted the Arius doctrine of unitarianism. in very short work and little effort I just have. I did not have to resort to cherry picking sources or twisting interpretations to do it. i let God's word speak for itself.
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobielet's quote the entire text shall we? its very enlightening and supports my argument fully
Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in [b]Gods form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.[/b]
1Christ encourages you, and his love comforts you. God's Spirit unites you, and you are concerned for others. 2Now make me completely happy! Live in harmony by showing love for each other. Be united in what you think, as if you were only one person. 3Don't be jealous or proud, but be humble and consider others more important than yourselves. 4Care about them as much as you care about yourselves 5and think the same way that Christ Jesus thought: [a] 6Christ was truly God.
But he did not try to remain equal with God.
7Instead he gave up everything [c] and became a slave,
when he became
like one of us.
8Christ was humble.
He obeyed God
and even died
on a cross.
9Then God gave Christ
the highest place
and honored his name
above all others.
10So at the name of Jesus
everyone will bow down,
those in heaven, on earth,
and under the earth.
11And to the glory
of God the Father
everyone will openly agree,
"Jesus Christ is Lord!"
But he did not try to remain equal with God.
this is an interesting verse...remain equal with God?
7Instead he gave up everything [c] and became a slave,
when he became
like one of us.
Gave up everything? why did he become a slave? to purchase our salvation, and to finally and forever mingle God and man.
9Then God gave Christ
the highest place
and honored his name
above all others.
Jesus' name above all others...All others
10So at the name of Jesus
everyone will bow down,
those in heaven, on earth,
and under the earth.
11And to the glory
of God the Father
everyone will openly agree,
"Jesus Christ is Lord!"
To the Glory of God all will agree that Jesus is Lord.
Yours is a poor exegetical usage of the text, its intellectually dishonest.
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIn God's revelation of Christ. Rev. 1:8. I think one verse is sufficient, as it is clear and concise.
in your dreams Duecer, in your dreams, we are still waiting for another reference where Christ is termed the Almighty, if you cannot find one then we must confess that the verse in question is with reference to Jehovah, the Almighty.
24 Aug 09
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Originally posted by duecerwake up and smell the coffee
In God's revelation of Christ. Rev. 1:8. I think one verse is sufficient, as it is clear and concise.
In the Christian Greek Scriptures the word Pantokrator occurs ten times, nine of them in the book of Revelation. The word basically means “Almighty,” or “All Powerful.” Its use in the Christian Greek Scriptures lends weight to the understanding of the Hebrew term Shaddai as meaning “Almighty One,” since otherwise there would be no corresponding term for Pantokrator in the Hebrew Scriptures.
At 2 Corinthians 6:18 Paul quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures in urging Christians to avoid false worship and the use of lifeless, powerless idols, thus qualifying as children of “the Almighty [Pantokrator].” In view of the apostles quotations, it is obvious that the title here applies to Jehovah God.
Similarly, throughout Revelation the title Pantokrator is applied to the Creator and King of Eternity, Jehovah, as in “the song of Moses the slave of God and the song of the Lamb [Jesus Christ],” which acclaims Jehovah God as the one worthy of worship and fear by all nations. (Re 15:3; compare Re 21:22.) The titles application to Jehovah God is made obvious at Revelation 19:6 by the use of the expression Hallelujah (Praise Jah, you people!). Likewise, the expression “the One who is and who was and who is coming” (Re 1:8; 4:8) clearly points to the God of eternity (Ps 90:2), who not only “was” the Almighty in ancient times but continues to be so and “is coming” as such with an expression of his all-powerfulness.
one verse is never sufficient, unless you like taking it out of context, why don't we put it back in context! 🙂
24 Aug 09
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieso at which point of your post did you disprove my assertion? none. if Christ is God, then all those appelations aply to him.
wake up and smell the coffee
In the Christian Greek Scriptures the word Pantokrator occurs ten times, nine of them in the book of Revelation. The word basically means “Almighty,” or “All Powerful.” Its use in the Christian Greek Scriptures lends weight to the understanding of the Hebrew term Shaddai as meaning “Almighty One,” since otherwise there ...[text shortened]... r sufficient, unless you like taking it out of context, why don't we put it back in context! 🙂
Revelations in greek is apocalypse which literally means to reveal or unviel. Funny how the first thing revealed was the true nature of Christ, being that of the Almighty
24 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by duecerok, lets go back to basics, the whole time, the title is applied consistently in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures to none other than Jehovah the Almighty, why it should suddenly become Christ in revelation Chapter 1:8 is inconsistent and erroneous. there is no occasion where Christ is termed the Almighty, not one, this coupled with the fact that Christ is subject to God, even after his resurrection, that he himself never even considered that he should be equal to god, is enough for any reasonable person to put the pieces together and make a correct evaluation that Christ is not the Almighty, thus refuting your assertions, again.
so at which point of your post did you disprove my assertion? none. if Christ is God, then all those appelations aply to him.
Revelations in greek is apocalypse which literally means to reveal or unviel. Funny how the first thing revealed was the true nature of Christ, being that of the Almighty
this last chance grasp that it reveals the true nature of Christ is not to be taken seriously, but given top marks for trying.
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewe will have to respectfully disagree on this point. I have read your argument, and find to accept it I must also accept the assumptions made in the argument (that because its never used before it shouldn't be taken seriously now). It comes down to our approaches at discerning God's word, we're just different.
ok, lets go back to basics, the whole time, the title is applied consistently in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures to none other than Jehovah the Almighty, why it should suddenly become Christ in revelation Chapter 1:8 is inconsistent and erroneous. there is no occasion where Christ is termed the Almighty, not one, this coupled with the fact that Chri ...[text shortened]... reveals the true nature of Christ is not to be taken seriously, but given top marks for trying.
24 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by duecerSure thing, Deucer can i ask you something, can you explain the whole taking Jesus into your heart business. i would ask Jaywill but he is reticent of talking to me at the moment, i was gonna ask him but never got round to it. where is this idea in scripture? which passages are we talking about. is it also true that you guys believe that gods Kingdom is in your heart also? and that paradise is there also ?
we will have to respectfully disagree on this point. I have read your argument, and find to accept it I must also accept the assumptions made in the argument (that because its never used before it shouldn't be taken seriously now). It comes down to our approaches at discerning God's word, we're just different.