Truth .. JW Style

Originally posted by divegeester
I sincerely feel sad for you; to value your spiritual worth through a combination of self effort and perceived persecution is indeed a sorry state.

just one alternative treatment would do thankyou Mr dont know anything in this regard,

Can i add sad to my list.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
just one alternative treatment would do thankyou Mr dont know anything in this regard,

Can i add sad to my list.

No, I'm the one who is sad.

You are the group who would allow your loved ones to die rather than (allow) give them a blood transfusion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this has no practical relevance in the real world, what is it about the following you do not understand

i also challenge you Fabian seeing that you seem to be an expert, can you relate any alternative procedures that are available to Jehovahs witnesses and those not wishing a blood transfusion.

I would like everyone to decide for themselves if they like to commit a religious suicide (as it is in practice) for themselves, not their parents, brothers, religious leader, nor anyone else than the person himself/herself.

Yes, there are alternatives, and they should be used instead of seeking a certain death. However, they are not usually immediately available at an accident location.

I would say that blood transfusion is better than a certain death. God will forgive such an act to preserv life.

I cannot ever accept a religious suicide, as any other kind of suicide, unless it is a well thought act, and not a decision from anyone else, as it is when the individual is unconcious and cannot decide for him/herself.

I'm glad you don't take this personally. If it is a critic, it is toward JW, and not to you personally.

Originally posted by divegeester
No, I'm the one who is sad.

You are the group who would allow your loved ones to die rather than (allow) give them a blood transfusion.

no one is allowing anyone to die, you don't know anything about it and here you are pontificating from your throne of no knowledge,

.....a peasant women steps out from the canopy of trees, oh you don't want to go up there as a crow cackles in the distance!

....research your subject and they you may do better. Time of course shall evade me and i have no will to talk of those who have died as a direct consequence of taking infected blood, 3,000 haemophiliacs in Scotland were given infected blood at one time! perhaps you had better leave it there before i really load the canons.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no one is allowing anyone to die, you don't know anything about it and here you are pontificating from your throne of no knowledge,

.....a peasant women steps out from the canopy of trees, oh you don't want to go up there as a crow cackles in the distance!

....research your subject and they you may do better. Time of course shall evade me a ...[text shortened]... ted blood at one time! perhaps you had better leave it there before i really load the canons.

So, you would allow your dearest loved one to have a blood transfusion if it was the only thing that would save their life?

Please be concise in your reply (I will refrain from asking for a 'yes or no' despite the premise requiring one).

Originally posted by divegeester
So, you would allow your dearest loved one to have a blood transfusion if it was the only thing that would save their life?

Please be concise in your reply (I will refrain from asking for a 'yes or no' despite the premise requiring one).

its not up to me, do you understand, its not up to me, i do not have the right of self determination over anyone but myself, you do understand the idea of self determination, the self is quite an important factor you know.

look divesgeester you don't know anything about it, you have never heard of any alternative medical or surgical procedures, you have no idea what alternatives are available and here you are asking questions that are purely hypothetical with no relevance to reality based on a simple ignorance of almost everything in this regard, either do the research or give it up.

i will answer no more hypothetical questions based on imaginary scenario's..

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its not up to me, do you understand, its not up to me, i do not have the right of self determination over anyone but myself, you do understand the idea of self determination, the self is quite an important factor you know.

look divesgeester you don't know anything about it, you have never heard of any alternative medical or surgical procedures, yo ...[text shortened]... or give it up.

i will answer no more hypothetical questions based on imaginary scenario's..

What absolute incredulous BS! Just answer the question.

People need transfusions to save their lives every day - if your wife needs one tomorrow and you had the power to stop it -- would you?

Or would you come here the day after when she was full of someone else's blood and say "it wasn't up to me"?

Originally posted by divegeester
What absolute incredulous BS! Just answer the question.

People need transfusions to save their lives every day - if your wife needs one tomorrow and you had the power to stop it -- would you?

Or would you come here the day after when she was full of someone else's blood and say "it wasn't up to me"?

my wife doesn't need a blood transfusion, she is not going for surgery tomorrow, if she was there would be contingency plans discussed with medical professionals prior to her surgery. she would discuss what blood fractions are acceptable to her, she would discuss if her blood count went low due to haemorrhaging if there was erythropoietin on hand a natural hormone which stimulates the bodies own red cell production, they would discuss if there was a sell salvage machine which cleans and reintroduces lost blood during operations etc etc do not waste any more of my time, please with your hypothetical meandering. If you want to know about the procedures and principles involved then be my guest, but other than that, please refrain, i will not answer any-more hypothetical nonsense.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
my wife doesn't need a blood transfusion, she is not going for surgery tomorrow, if she was there would be contingency plans discussed with medical professionals prior to her surgery. she would discuss what blood fractions are acceptable to her, she would discuss if her blood count went low due to haemorrhaging if there was erythropoietin on hand a ...[text shortened]... y guest, but other than that, please refrain, i will not answer any-more hypothetical nonsense.

What?!

It's not nonsense, these are your (JW's) doctrines we are talking about mate. Man-up and explain your beliefs in terms of real world scenarios instead of hiding behind obfuscation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
We meet again Lola!

another hypothetical question with no practical relevance. In the UK a doctor may administer blood to a minor regardless of the parents wishes. I do hope that is clear enough, for it then makes my wishes irrelevant, do you understand? i really do wish you people would keep it in the real world.

Actually it was basically the same question that bbarr asked. Your response was at best ambiguous and at worst an attempt to deceive. I gave you the benefit of a doubt with "ambiguous" which seems to have been overly generous based on this response and your second response to bbarr.

You know, I really don't understand why you're evading the question. I wouldn't have framed it personally as bbarr did and only asked it that way because your answer was evasive. The underlying question is really about JW doctrine and the strength of your conviction, so whether or not you live in the UK is neither here nor there. If you would not consent and that is in line with JW doctrine, why don't you just say so? Are you afraid to say that you would consent to a whole blood transfusion under those circumstance because you are afraid to admit publicly that you would go against JW doctrine under those circumstance? Or are you afraid to say that you would allow your child to die under those circumstances? What do you think you gain by being evasive?

Originally posted by divegeester
What?!

It's not nonsense, these are your (JW's) doctrines we are talking about mate. Man-up and explain your beliefs in terms of real world scenarios instead of hiding behind obfuscation.

i know what my beliefs are, what are they to you is what i am wondering.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i know what my beliefs are, what are they to you is what i am wondering.

Are you going to answer my question or just continue to faff about?


My apologies, I know I sound impatient...

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Actually it was basically the same question that bbarr asked. Your response was at best ambiguous and at worst an attempt to deceive. I gave you the benefit of a doubt with "ambiguous" which seems to have been overly generous based on this response and your second response to bbarr.

You know, I really don't understand why you're evading the question. I ...[text shortened]... your child to die under those circumstances? What do you think you gain by being evasive?

look Lola , no more emotionally charged hypothetical scenarios. we do not take blood in whole nor in one of its four main constituent parts, that is white cells red cells, plasma and platelets. In the case of a minor it is out of our hands. we claim the right as adults of self determination, that is the right to choose what shall be done with our own bodies. It is clear, concise, and that Lola, that is all you are getting, now i realise that you may squeem and squeem and squeem, you are being evasive, you are afraid and a whole hist of other imaginary scenarios that may cross your mind, its all irrelevant and blah de blah, no more hypothetical scenarios, do you understand Lola?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i know what my beliefs are, what are they to you is what i am wondering.

I wonder if you can understand some simple common sense.

If you had your religious beliefs like most denominations and worship God the way he asked, then nobody would be asking you these questions.

Your belief excludes the rest of the world from eternal life.. who are in the words of your organisation, the followers of Satan and are doomed.

Hence all the questions.

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you going to answer my question or just continue to faff about?


My apologies, I know I sound impatient...

here is my official line my official line, beyond this i have nothing more to say, you may surmise, draw your own conclusions, assign values where none exist, try to draw vague inferences, call me anything you like, etc etc etc,

we do not take blood in whole nor in one of its four main constituent parts, that is white cells red cells, plasma and platelets. In the case of a minor it is out of our hands. we claim the right as adults of self determination, that is the right to choose what shall be done with our own bodies. It is clear and concise