28 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyWhat proportion of Muslims overall take literally the teaching that infidels go to hell?
[b]I am not saying all muslims are violent or bad people. And to all that I offended with my anger I apologize.
I'm a Muslim, and I have been talking here for almost a year now. I got very angey when someone like talks about my faith without any knowladge.
What my faith has to do with what you say?
What do you know about my faith to blame it ...[text shortened]... o whom do you apologize? To the Millions of Muslims who you called their faith with this stuff?[/b]
That would be a good barometer of the merits of Islam and those who profess it.
28 Jul 07
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeI'm not saying to you don't talk, I'm asking you about what bother you about that?
What is your problem? Do you care about anything except what you believe?
You have also noticed this is a debate forum, I take it.
There are two options here:
1- You believe that Islam is true, so you believe in GOD, and you will be in heaven. And if so, you don't have to worry about hell or what happen in it. Why bother yourself?
2- You believe that Islam is not true. So there is no hell. And you don't have to bother yourself.
Refusing to believe in GOD because he punish those who don't believe in him doesn't make any sense to me.
28 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeWhat proportion of Muslims overall take literally the teaching that infidels go to hell?
What proportion of Muslims overall take literally the teaching that infidels go to hell?
That would be a good barometer of the merits of Islam and those who profess it.
All Muslims believe that infidels will go to hell.
But what this has to do with any thing. Do you want me to say that those who deny GOD existance will be in heaven? I don't think you will make any sense if you did so.
What merits is behind that? Actually I see your proposition is very silly.
What really matters is how Muslims are commanded to deal with non Muslims? Do you have any idea about Islamic teaching regarding that?
Hell is nothing for any one to decide, and it doesn't motivate any action in Muslim's life except that Muslims are commanded to save people from hell by telling them the message of Islam. To worship the only GOD, the creator of everything.
EDIT: If you think that Muslims are tought to kill infidals because they are in hell , then you don't know anything about Islam.
28 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneyYou believe that Islam is true, so you believe in GOD, and you will be in heaven.
I'm not saying to you don't talk, I'm asking you about what bother you about that?
There are two options here:
1- You believe that Islam is true, so you believe in GOD, and you will be in heaven. And if so, you don't have to worry about hell or what happen in it. Why bother yourself?
2- You believe that Islam is not true. So there is no hell. And eve in GOD because he punish those who don't believe in him doesn't make any sense to me.
Well I don't believe in the Islam religon. And I very much believe in GOD. And I believe in one God. And I'm a christian. And I know I will be in heaven with God when I die. I also believe very much in hell.
What you are saying here is if I don't believe in Islam I don't believe in God . or hell . Or that I don't worship God. This is a compleatly false statement.
Refusing to believe in GOD because he punish those who don't believe in him doesn't make any sense to me.
I will never believe in the Islam Religion, but this in no way says I don't believe in God or that I don't believe in hell. Or that I don't worship God.
28 Jul 07
Originally posted by KingDavid403As you can see he is not believing in GOD at all. And he refusing to believe in GOD, and so all religions. And he is raising the point of Hell here and I was answering him. So this discussion doesn't apply to you. It will not fit your position.
[b]You believe that Islam is true, so you believe in GOD, and you will be in heaven.
Well I don't believe in the Islam religon. And I very much believe in GOD. And I believe in one God. And I'm a christian. And I know I will be in heaven with God when I die. I also believe very much in hell.
What you are saying here is if I don't belie ...[text shortened]... I don't believe in God or that I don't believe in hell. Or that I don't worship God.[/b]
The reasons he raised here to refuse Islam will be the same with Christianity.
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If you like we can discuss Islam and its view ot christians.
Regards
28 Jul 07
Take a look at this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sri_Lanka
It is talking about the origin of Islam in Sri Lanka, and how it did spread there. The people of Sri Lanka at that time were infidals Although Islam spread in this Islan without any problem.
28 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyWhy bother about anything? I like debating. To clarify issues for myself and for others.
I'm not saying to you don't talk, I'm asking you about what bother you about that?
There are two options here:
1- You believe that Islam is true, so you believe in GOD, and you will be in heaven. And if so, you don't have to worry about hell or what happen in it. Why bother yourself?
2- You believe that Islam is not true. So there is no hell. And ...[text shortened]... eve in GOD because he punish those who don't believe in him doesn't make any sense to me.
In this instance, I am also interested in what makes people believe farfetched and offensive things with unswerving conviction--like, for example, that all people not professing Islam will go to hell.
You are incorrect in assuming that the only possibilities that exist are 1 and 2. There are other logical possibilities.
For example, I could believe that Islam is not true and it could actually be true; or I could believe in hell but not in Islam; and several other combinations I need not enumerate.
Do you mean by your final statement that it makes no sense to you to believe in a God who doesn't punish those who do not believe in Him?
28 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyWell, if all Muslims believe that infidels will go to hell, then all Muslims are metaphysically naive, intellectually backward, and morally twisted. I suspect quite a few Muslims don't really believe this.
[b]What proportion of Muslims overall take literally the teaching that infidels go to hell?
All Muslims believe that infidels will go to hell.
But what this has to do with any thing. Do you want me to say that those who deny GOD existance will be in heaven? I don't think you will make any sense if you did so.
What merits is behind that? Actual ...[text shortened]... tought to kill infidals because they are in hell , then you don't know anything about Islam.[/b]
Believing in hell for people who think differently from you is a form of ignorant, hateful, xenophobia.
I think the concept of God who doesn't send anyone to hell is more coherent and enlightened than the perverted alternative you present.
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeWhy bother about anything? I like debating. To clarify issues for myself and for others.
Why bother about anything? I like debating. To clarify issues for myself and for others.
In this instance, I am also interested in what makes people believe farfetched and offensive things with unswerving conviction--like, for example, that all people not professing Islam will go to hell.
You are incorrect in assuming that the only possibilities t ...[text shortened]... t makes no sense to you to believe in a God who doesn't punish those who do not believe in Him?
I have no problem about that. But the way you presented your statment doesn't say that.
In this instance, I am also interested in what makes people believe farfetched and offensive things with unswerving conviction--like, for example, that all people not professing Islam will go to hell.
Again I have no problem for your participation. You are free to say what ever you want, and when I said "Why care?" I was asking you about why do you refuse that.
Talking about Islam you have to define Islam first.
Islam is an arabic word means submission. So Islam is to submit yourself to GOD. This of course imply believing in GOD existance as a begining.
So all Muslims believe in GOD. The name of GOD is Allah. And he is the same GOD of Abraham , Mosses and Jesus (of course because we belive that Jesus is a man and a prophet).
So basicly Islam is the same religion of Abraham, Moses , and Jesus. And Islamic message is the same message.
So what is new. The new thing is when the message of GOD is corrupted (people started to belive in Jesus as GOD). GOD sent one final prophet his name is Mohammed. The prophet Mohammed came with the same message of all the previous prophets. He asked people to worship GOD, and to leave all the corrupted religions.
So we as Muslims belive that GOD sent prophets with books to people, including the Torah and the Gospel of Jesus. But also we believe that those books are existing today, and what we have are corrupted versions of them. So GOD sent Quran which contain the same message given to Mosses in the Torah ,and Jesus.
Quran includes basic teachings about faith, worship and laws.
Faith = what a person should belive, Muslim should belive in GOD, Allah, his angels, prophets, books, the day of Judgment, heaven and hell. So far this shouldn't be different from Mosses Message, and the original Message of Jesus.
Worship: Different practices required by the person to worship GOD. Example are dialy prayers, fasting and others.
Law: The Islamic law is like any other law: It it to govern and control all the aspects of human lifes. For example it covers trading, renting, and commertial related stuff. It also includes regulations for Marriage and family related stuff. It also includes a criminal law, which include what are the punishment of several crimes and regulations to accuse someone with a crime. It also includes laws to regulate the relations between Muslims and non-Muslims
And at the end this law includes , like any other law in the world, regulations of militiry actions if required. So Quran includes some verses talks about what Muslims should do if they are required to go in war. So it tell us when should Muslims be in war , and what should we do if we have to.
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In general Islam is not a different or new religion. It is the original religion of GOD that all the prophets came with.
So lets go back to your statement:
that all people not professing Islam will go to hell.
I think it make some sense now for Muslims to believe such a thing.
You are incorrect in assuming that the only possibilities that exist are 1 and 2. There are other logical possibilities.
For example, I could believe that Islam is not true and it could actually be true; or I could believe in hell but not in Islam; and several other combinations I need not enumerate.
I agree, but I'm talking about you and your first statement. You deny Hell, and you deny Islam. And attacked my GOD. So this means you don't assume any possiblity of Islam being true. This limits the options to only two. But of course you like to discuss other possibilities I have no problem.
Do you mean by your final statement that it makes no sense to you to believe in a God who doesn't punish those who do not believe in Him?
no,
What I mean is that it is not enough reason to deny his existance.
29 Jul 07
2 edits
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeDo you understand what are saying?
Well, if all Muslims believe that infidels will go to hell, then all Muslims are metaphysically naive, intellectually backward, and morally twisted. I suspect quite a few Muslims don't really believe this.
Believing in hell for people who think differently from you is a form of ignorant, hateful, xenophobia.
I think the concept of God who doesn't ...[text shortened]... nd anyone to hell is more coherent and enlightened than the perverted alternative you present.
I can't stop laughing. You are not making any sense.
Do you think that me as a Muslim who will put you in hell because you think different than me?
I think you should review your idea about what hell is, and when someone go to hell, and who decide that someone go to hell.
I think the concept of God who doesn't send anyone to hell is more coherent and enlightened than the perverted alternative you present.
What if GOD exists and he punishes those who don't believe in him in Hell?
Have a nice time
29 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneyI don't think you put me in hell. I think you think that God puts voluntary non-Muslims in hell. Am I incorrect?
Do you understand what are saying?
I can't stop laughing. You are not making any sense.
Do you think that me as a Muslim who will put you in hell because you think different than me?
I think you should review your idea about what hell is, and when someone go to hell, and who decide that someone go to hell.
[b]I think the concept of God who doesn ...[text shortened]... f GOD exists and he punishes those who don't believe in him in Hell?
Have a nice time[/b]
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by webbinatorWhy do we have to "understand" islam? Who cares? Islam is just like the others: a fraud, a sham, a waste of time. I'm sick to death of all those muslims. I have NO respect for islam. I'm tired of hearing about the friggin' Palestinians. I'm sick of left-wing radio (i.e. NPR) and other bleeding heart liberals pitying the poor palestians. they (the lazy Palestinians ought to get off there male hauvinistic ass's and do something besides blowing up people!
http://www.islam-guide.com/
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeSo does
I don't think you put me in hell. I think you think that God puts voluntary non-Muslims in hell. Am I incorrect?
Believing in hell for people who think differently from you is a form of ignorant, hateful, xenophobia.
make any sense.
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by StregoneIt must be awful to have such hate rotting away your heart. You're a person worthy of much pity.
Why do we have to "understand" islam? Who cares? Islam is just like the others: a fraud, a sham, a waste of time. I'm sick to death of all those muslims. I have NO respect for islam. I'm tired of hearing about the friggin' Palestinians. I'm sick of left-wing radio (i.e. NPR) and other bleeding heart liberals pitying the poor palestians. they (the lazy Pales ...[text shortened]... ought to get off there male hauvinistic ass's and do something besides blowing up people!
Nemesio