understanding islam

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Well, if all Muslims believe that infidels will go to hell, then all Muslims are metaphysically naive, intellectually backward, and morally twisted. I suspect quite a few Muslims don't really believe this.

Believing in hell for people who think differently from you is a form of ignorant, hateful, xenophobia.

I think the concept of God who doesn't ...[text shortened]... nd anyone to hell is more coherent and enlightened than the perverted alternative you present.

Which Christian sects believe that you can be atheist or not Christian and go to heaven anyway?

Originally posted by ahosyney
As you can see he is not believing in GOD at all. And he refusing to believe in GOD, and so all religions. And he is raising the point of Hell here and I was answering him. So this discussion doesn't apply to you. It will not fit your position.

The reasons he raised here to refuse Islam will be the same with Christianity.

--------
If you like we can discuss Islam and its view ot christians.
Regards

If you like we can discuss Islam and its view ot christians.
Regards
I am willing to talk and learn Islam beliefs anytime. If you are willing to learn and discuss christian beliefs.

Islam and christians have alot in common. And they also have alot that is not in common.

The christians bible and the Islam Torah have alot in common. And quite a few other things.

I am willing to learn about you and Islam and your beliefs, if you are willing to learn some about christians and some of my beliefs.
I also must tell you I don't agree with alot of christians.

But I totaly believe that the christian bible is the word of God and That Jesus was God in the flesh.

So I hope to hear back from you.

Regards
David

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]I am not saying all muslims are violent or bad people. And to all that I offended with my anger I apologize.

I'm a Muslim, and I have been talking here for almost a year now. I got very angey when someone like talks about my faith without any knowladge.

What my faith has to do with what you say?

What do you know about my faith to blame it ...[text shortened]... o whom do you apologize? To the Millions of Muslims who you called their faith with this stuff?[/b]

Every religion in the world that has destroyed people is based on love. ~ Anton Szandor Lavey ~

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]If you like we can discuss Islam and its view ot christians.
Regards
I am willing to talk and learn Islam beliefs anytime. If you are willing to learn and discuss christian beliefs.

Islam and christians have alot in common. And they also have alot that is not in common.

The christians bible and the Islam Torah have alot in common ...[text shortened]... That Jesus was God in the flesh.

So I hope to hear back from you.

Regards
David[/b]

I am willing to talk and learn Islam beliefs anytime. If you are willing to learn and discuss christian beliefs.

I have been studying Christianity for one year now. I hope you have the patience to do the same with Islam.


Islam and christians have alot in common. And they also have alot that is not in common.

Sure.

The christians bible and the Islam Torah have alot in common. And quite a few other things.

The Torah is not the book of Muslims. The Torah is part of the Christian bible. It is the books given to Mosses from GOD.

The Muslim's book is called Quran.

I am willing to learn about you and Islam and your beliefs, if you are willing to learn some about christians and some of my beliefs.

I told what I do, I hope you have the same willing.

But I totaly believe that the christian bible is the word of God and That Jesus was God in the flesh.

I hope you define which bible you are talking about. I don't know if you know that Jewsh have their own bible as well.


So I hope to hear back from you.
I already showd some information about Islam in a previous post. You can read it and tell me what you think.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
Which Christian sects believe that you can be atheist or not Christian and go to heaven anyway?

Well I am a christian and I don't believe you have to be a christian not to go to hell.
I believe that the good people who have a good heart no matter what religon or sexual prefence etc etc. are the people who will being living on this earth with Jesus in peace for the thousand years after the first judgement.
Satan will be let out of hell for a short time after this thousand years and lead many of these people to hell. But far from all.

If you studie the book of revelations you will see that all christians who accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior and stayed faithful until the end will be raptured up to heaven towards the end of the tribulation.

Alot of christians believe that they will be raptured up before the tribulation. I find many scriptures that say this is not so. But that is a different subject.

So if all christians are raptured up to heaven escaping judgement who is left to be judged?? Who are the sheep and the goats? Who are on the left and right hand of Jesus after the first judgement???

I say it is the good people who just didn't know Jesus. or who were never introduced to Jesus, that go with Him into this earth for a 1000 years of peace. As Jesus as their King.

If God is the perfect judge, Which He is, I really don't believe He will send good people to hell without their full knowledge of rejecting Jesus as Lord and savior.
Now after this 1000 years of peace with Jesus as their Lord and Savior. If they reject Jesus after this? Oh yes to hell they go. Along with the fallen angels who were with God also, But then rejected Him.

To explain it fully I would br writing for at least a week. I would suggest reading and studying the bible to find out what you think, or feel, or Know, or find out.
I follow no christian sect or religion. I am just a sinner who accepted Jesus as my lord and savior and Jesus is my God. My life has completely changed since I accepted Him. Not over night like some. But mine took time and still needs work. I think it will always need work. But thanks be to Jesus I am saved if I stay with Him.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
Well I am a christian and I don't believe you have to be a christian not to go to hell.
I believe that the good people who have a good heart no matter what religon or sexual prefence etc etc. are the people who will being living on this earth with Jesus in peace for the thousand years after the first judgement.
Satan will be let out of hell for a ...[text shortened]... rk. I think it will always need work. But thanks be to Jesus I am saved if I stay with Him.

I'm not talking about individual intelligent people within a religion, which you seem to be. I'm talking about the official stance of religions. The official stance of Islam seems to be that if you are not Muslim, you are going to hell. Many/most Christian religions also believe that if you are not a Christian/baptized/Born Again/similar criteria then you are going to hell.

Originally posted by KingDavid403

If God is the perfect judge, Which He is, I really don't believe He will send good people to hell without their full knowledge of rejecting Jesus as Lord and savior.

Here's an interesting line of inquiry:

Jesus taught one to follow the will of the Father, i.e., live a life of love, compassion, justice, etc.. If one follows the will of the Father, is he not also following what Jesus taught? Even if he doesn't profess to follow Jesus, is he not a follower?

If one doesn't follow the will of the Father, is he following what Jesus taught? Even if he professes to follow Jesus, is he truly a follower?

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]I am willing to talk and learn Islam beliefs anytime. If you are willing to learn and discuss christian beliefs.

I have been studying Christianity for one year now. I hope you have the patience to do the same with Islam.


Islam and christians have alot in common. And they also have alot that is not in common.

Sure.

The chri d some information about Islam in a previous post. You can read it and tell me what you think.

((I have been studying Christianity for one year now. I hope you have the patience to do the same with Islam.)

I do have the patience to do the same with Islam. I must admit that I have not studied Islam much. I have only gone by what I have been told mostly and what I see going on in the world.
But I did do about 2 hours of reading this afternoon on Islam and the muslim beliefs and will continue to do so.

(The Torah is not the book of Muslims. The Torah is part of the Christian bible. It is the books given to Mosses from GOD.)

Maybe I was incorrect in what I just read.

Does not our christian bible and your Quran have the same scriptures up to about the 12th chapter of Genesis????

(I hope you define which bible you are talking about. I don't know if you know that Jewsh have their own bible as well.)

The christian bible.
The catholic christian bible has more books in it than the rest of the christians bibles.
I also believe most of these books are God inspired. And I do Not think the other christians should have removed them.

Then you also have a few different sects that call themself christians that also have there own companion bibles so to speak, but I am not one of them.
It's the basic christian bible I read and study and believe to be GODs Word. With the catholic books included.

(I already showed some information about Islam in a previous post. You can read it and tell me what you think.)

I will look at it, and I will also do some more studying on Islam and the Muslims and I promise to get back to you. From now on I think we should talk privately in personal messages sent to each other. Is this ok with you??? Either way is fine with me also.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Here's an interesting line of inquiry:

Jesus taught one to follow the will of the Father, i.e., live a life of love, compassion, justice, etc.. If one follows the will of the Father, is he not also following what Jesus taught? Even if he doesn't profess to follow Jesus, is he not a follower?

If one doesn't follow the will of the Father, is he following what Jesus taught? Even if he professes to follow Jesus, is he truly a follower?

Jesus taught one to follow the will of the Father, i.e., live a life of love, compassion, justice, etc.. If one follows the will of the Father, is he not also following what Jesus taught? Even if he doesn't profess to follow Jesus, is he not a follower?
I think to be a follower of Jesus you would have to profess Him as your Lord. Don't you think? If you have in your heart what you just methioned, Which there are many) I believe these are the people that will live on this earth for a 1000 years in peace with Jesus.

If one doesn't follow the will of the Father, is he following what Jesus taught? Even if he professes to follow Jesus, is he truly a follower?
I would say plainly no. But you have to be careful here. We all sin from time to time and fall short of the glory of GOD.
And we all can fall into sin.
King David murdered Uriah and had sex with his wife.
Noah turned into a drunkard for a time after being saved from the flood.
Solomon worship false gods with some of his wifes to make them happy. etc etc. Are they saved???
Well we know full well King David repented fully with his heart, but still paid alot for this. But it's clear he was saved.
Noah repented also.
Solomon did not repent even after GOD told him to, and God killed him. So I couldn't say with solomon. I am not the judge GOD is. HE knows all. I do not.
But there are many people who claim to be christians who are not. They appear holy on the outside but are ravinous wolfs on the inside, as Jesus told the pharises.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
I'm not talking about individual intelligent people within a religion, which you seem to be. I'm talking about the official stance of religions. The official stance of Islam seems to be that if you are not Muslim, you are going to hell. Many/most Christian religions also believe that if you are not a Christian/baptized/Born Again/similar criteria then you are going to hell.

I would say you are mostly correct.
But remember you have many different sects and peoples within every religion. And even alot of christian sects think that all the other christian sects are going to hell unless they come and follow their sect to. 🙄 Amazing to me. 🙄 Same God but a little different form of worship And BOOM your going to hell. lol

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]Jesus taught one to follow the will of the Father, i.e., live a life of love, compassion, justice, etc.. If one follows the will of the Father, is he not also following what Jesus taught? Even if he doesn't profess to follow Jesus, is he not a follower?
I think to be a follower of Jesus you would have to profess Him as your Lord. Don't you th ppear holy on the outside but are ravinous wolfs on the inside, as Jesus told the pharises.[/b]

What is Jesus if not the embodiment of love, justice, compassion, etc.?

I read the following and hear Jesus saying that what's important is to be one "who does the will of my Father." I also hear Him saying that crying 'Lord, Lord' is unimportant. Do you hear something different?

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

Originally posted by KingDavid403
([b](I have been studying Christianity for one year now. I hope you have the patience to do the same with Islam.)

I do have the patience to do the same with Islam. I must admit that I have not studied Islam much. I have only gone by what I have been told mostly and what I see going on in the world.
But I did do about 2 hours of reading thi ...[text shortened]... rsonal messages sent to each other. Is this ok with you??? Either way is fine with me also.[/b]

I do have the patience to do the same with Islam. I must admit that I have not studied Islam much. I have only gone by what I have been told mostly and what I see going on in the world.
But I did do about 2 hours of reading this afternoon on Islam and the muslim beliefs and will continue to do so.

If you need any help during your reading, just tell me.


Does not our christian bible and your Quran have the same scriptures up to about the 12th chapter of Genesis????

Quran has nothing to do with the christian bible. It is written in Arabic. It talkes about somethings exists in your bible, but it is totaly a different book.


I will look at it, and I will also do some more studying on Islam and the Muslims and I promise to get back to you. From now on I think we should talk privately in personal messages sent to each other. Is this ok with you??? Either way is fine with me also.

It is fine with me, when you need anything, just message me.

Have a nice time in your reading.

BTY: of course you will find many sources that talk about Islam and are biased aganist it. Just don't make them your only source, try to read the Muslim's point of view as well.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What is Jesus if not the embodiment of love, justice, compassion, etc.?

I read the following and hear Jesus saying that what's important is to be one "who does the will of my Father." Crying 'Lord, Lord' is unimportant. Do you see something different?

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; s?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
Very good scripture. I love this one.
Jesus is saying here to many people who thought they were saved and thought they were christians that they are not. And that they are evil and that He never knew them. Stay cool.

Do you notice how they say didn't WE do these mighty works in your name. When it is God doing the mighty works in HIS name. These people to me sound like they were runing around like gods. pretending it is them that has this magical power. lol They forgot who God is and made themselfs into their own god. They think they can use God to get this magical power like witchcraft and then they make themselfs out to be god themselfs. Look at benny Hinn on tv sometime. lol He takes off his thousand dollar suite coat and whips it around like a cowboy from texas roping cattle and everyone rushs to the stage and everyone who is touched by benny hinns suite coat flying around falls to the ground and does the fish out of water flop.
Then good ol benny pretends to almost be god and tells you if you don't send money to him your damned or sinning. Watch him sometime.
These people are crying Lord Lord because their in the line thats going were they don't want to go in the judgement, because they are evil and never did the will of God which is true love. They thought they said the right chant (or prayer) and that they had there get out of hell free card. Oh yeah their crying.

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]I do have the patience to do the same with Islam. I must admit that I have not studied Islam much. I have only gone by what I have been told mostly and what I see going on in the world.
But I did do about 2 hours of reading this afternoon on Islam and the muslim beliefs and will continue to do so.

If you need any help during your reading, just ...[text shortened]... ist it. Just don't make them your only source, try to read the Muslim's point of view as well.[/b]

BTY: of course you will find many sources that talk about Islam and are biased aganist it. Just don't make them your only source, try to read the Muslim's point of view as well.

I promise to do my best to find the truth without outside biased.

Quran has nothing to do with the christian bible. It is written in Arabic. It talkes about somethings exists in your bible, but it is totaly a different book.
Yes I know they are different. But they do have a few of the same writings. Anyways I will do my best and I promise to get back to you in about a Week.
If you need any help during your reading, just tell me.
Thank you, I very much might need your help, Thanks.

Originally posted by Nemesio
It must be awful to have such hate rotting away your heart. You're a person worthy of much pity.

Nemesio

Me, worthy? Pity? Hey, keep it!