Understanding the Bible: A Discussion on Luke 18:18-27"

@pettytalk said
"Please share your thoughts and opinions, and let's see if we can unearth something new together!"

As stated in the opening, the hope was to see if anything new could be unearthed.

So far, nothing new has been shared except for differing opinions that date back to the early days following Jesus's death. Perhaps I am the only one who has attempted to highlight the poss ...[text shortened]... can also refute it in a scholarly manner, rather than merely clinging to their deeply held beliefs.

What new something have you discovered ? Im seeing nothing of substance.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It wasn't my point. The point was made by Jesus by asking why he was being described as good, when only God was good.

If it helps, replace the word 'good' with 'French.' - If Jesus had said, 'why do you call me French, only God is French' wouldn't it be blatantly obvious Jesus was indicating he wasn't French?

Adding words and meaning not clearly being said is a dangerous thing in scripture, and in this discussion with more than a few scriptures, the words used are ignored for the "meaning assigned" by those who want to see a particular point solidified.

@suzianne said
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

-- John 1:1-5, KJV

😁❤👍

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The Immanuel thing is meaningless Kelly in this context. Jesus clearly says no one is good apart from God and challenges why he therefore is being described as good. (Blatantly making clear he is not God).

You add meaning to a question that you assign and when it clearly says something in plain language you ignore it, telling.

“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”

(which means, God with us).

@rajk999 said
Really ? You said ... The concept of the Trinity is something that leads people to hell and prevents them from escaping.

Where is the proof from the bible that this is the case.

He made it up.

@kellyjay said

So in your opinion, Jesus is a created being?

The flesh, blood and bones … the entire body of Jesus was created in the womb of Mary. Agreed?

Once you acknowledge this then all that is left is his spirit; and the Bible teaches that there is only ONE spirit

@suzianne said
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

-- John 1:1-5, KJV

The flesh, blood and bones … the entire body of Jesus was created in the womb of Mary. Agreed?

Once you acknowledge this then all that is left is his spirit; and the Bible teaches that there is only ONE spirit

@rajk999 said
Really ? You said ... The concept of the Trinity is something that leads people to hell and prevents them from escaping.

Where is the proof from the bible that this is the case.

It's not just the trinity. It's all a matter of false teaching, and those who have been taken in by it.

Isaiah 9:16 Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray.
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Although you still will not understand, it's worth a shot.

For the concept of the Trinity, using 'hell' as a simile could be seen as a metaphorical representation of a state of ignorance or misunderstanding about the nature of God. It's not saying that being in a state of ignorance is literally equivalent to being in hell, but rather it's a way of describing the difficulty or pain of not understanding something correctly. Isn't being locked in a false dogma similar to being a prisoner of hell? As Dante said, 'Ye who are about to enter, abandon all hope.' There is no hope for those who have swallowed the bait, hook, line, and sinker."

There are writers among us, and sometimes I take the trouble to attempt to imitate their communication skills. If I fail with them, I feel embarrassed, but with others, I try to elaborate more, as I am doing now.

@rajk999 said
What new something have you discovered ? Im seeing nothing of substance.

I did not say that I have discovered something new. What I noted and provided is very old. I was proposing to seek a new meaning outside the Bible, in other literature. And if you look over my posted comments on this thread perhaps you may spot it, if you are a good spotter.

However, you might not be one of those with an open mind for such a novel idea, and possibly neither would anyone else.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
In a Christian context, salvation is being 'saved from the penalty of being separated from God' while eternal life is living after one's mortal life here on Earth has ended. - Anybody or anything that sufferers forever in the fires of hell would, for example, have eternal life but not salvation. Any human that lives forever through the intervention of scientific discovery, might achieve eternal life, but not salvation.

Before Christianity, in the Old Testament, the concept of being saved primarily refers to being delivered from sin and its consequences. The Old Testament speaks of salvation in terms of being saved from the punishment of sin, being reconciled with God, and receiving blessings promised by God.

Is anyone ever separated from God if he exists and is also Omnipresent?

If sin is the primary cause for being separated from God, perhaps a better term for salvation would be purification?

The story of Adam and Eve represents both being, and not being, in the company of God. And "sin" is the thing which determines being and not being in the company of God.

Sin, disobedience, as the story goes, caused the two to be liable to death. Which implies they probably had eternal life prior to committing the sin.

From the New Testament, from which all Christianity stems out, perhaps salvation can be tied down to death. A second death, to be precise, one not occurring. The term "second death" is often used in biblical literature to refer to the state of spiritual death and separation from God, which is contrasted with the state of spiritual life and union with God that comes through faith in Jesus Christ.

The problem is not so much what salvation really means, but what causes salvation. What does it really mean to have faith in Jesus Christ?

Many Christians believe that salvation is achieved merely through faith in Jesus Christ and accepting Him as Lord. Paul, in Romans 10:9-10, says, "That if you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Further, in 10:13, Paul says "For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” In the easy-to-read version of Matthew 7:21, which is strongly refuting Paul, is Jesus Himself. “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants.

Therefore what are we to make of having faith in Jesus Christ's instructions and teaching?

Jesus, in Matthew 7:24-27, says "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

Clearly, there is more to salvation than meets the eye, necessitating a much more extensive discussion and a closer look at other Biblical passages. Moreover, if we subscribe to the idea that God is Omnipresent, we might also need to examine passages outside of the Bible. Perhaps God is also present in the pages of other literature?

@pettytalk said
Moreover, if we subscribe to the idea that God is Omnipresent, we might also need to examine passages outside of the Bible. Perhaps God is also present in the pages of other literature?

Or indeed other religious books.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Or indeed other religious books.

Religious books are considered a genre of literature, known as religious literature. God is all over the place, and therefore we have the sophisticated academic tern, Omnipresent.

However, from my perspective, when it comes to Jesus' claim that He's the only way to the Father, we are seeking a specific piece of literature that will lead us to THE God-Father. The theme here is love, as God is portrayed as Love, and His Son is all about love. In fact, as you know better, when Jesus was asked about the greatest commandment, it's naturally the first: Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Then He provided the second greatest: Love all others as yourself. Both are love commandments. He then summarized the entire Law and all the prophets as hanging on these two great commandments.

Once we establish our direction by locating the one piece of literature that contains numerous clues, we can potentially move forward along the path to discover more evidence of God's Omnipresence, where He casts vast shadows.

@pettytalk said
Religious books are considered a genre of literature, known as religious literature. God is all over the place, and therefore we have the sophisticated academic tern, Omnipresent.

However, from my perspective, when it comes to Jesus' claim that He's the only way to the Father, we are seeking a specific piece of literature that will lead us to THE God-Father. The theme he ...[text shortened]... forward along the path to discover more evidence of God's Omnipresence, where He casts vast shadows.

You are correct about the critical thing is love or charity. Therefore you are incorrect that a man will be cast into hell for not fully understanding that God is the Father and Jesus is the Son, which is really a trivial matter. Many people in the time of Christ did not appreciate this and Jesus never bothered explaining it to them ... why? Its a non-issue.

@divegeester said
The flesh, blood and bones … the entire body of Jesus was created in the womb of Mary. Agreed?

Once you acknowledge this then all that is left is his spirit; and the Bible teaches that there is only ONE spirit

How many times are you gonna write this in this thread. You're already up to three.

@suzianne said
How many times are you gonna write this in this thread. You're already up to three.

As many times as it suits me to do so. The question is pertinent to the topic of the deity of Christ and especially the doctrine of the trinity. So, I’ll ask you then…

The flesh, blood and bones … the entire body of Jesus was created in the womb of Mary. Agreed?

Once you acknowledge this then all that is left is his spirit; and the Bible teaches that God is only ONE spirit