15 Mar 05
Originally posted by Maustrauser
My Mum cares for me. And does my wife. And my kids. And my friends. And my dog. And my chooks. What do I need with a fairy tale? And why do you care so much about my wicked sinful soul? Go and save someone else...Darfius for instance.
Curious, I take it this is unconditional love, i.e. irrespective of what you do to the members of your family they will still love you ?
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by pcaspianI'm not sure there's any such thing as unconditional love.
Originally posted by Maustrauser
[b]My Mum cares for me. And does my wife. And my kids. And my friends. And my dog. And my chooks. What do I need with a fairy tale? And why do you care so much about my wicked sinful soul? Go and save someone else...Darfius for instance.
Curious, I take it this is unconditional love, i.e. irrespective of what you do to the members of your family they will still love you ?[/b]
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54Yes, but unconditional means that it wouldn't matter what happened, nothing could break that bond. This is not the same as a natural instinct to love someone.
I definitely believe there is such a thing. When one's own attachment to 'self' is lessened, compassion arises naturally.
Unconditional-to-a-point love, I could believe in, but for example were my mother to murder my girlfriend (or any number of other scenarios), I doubt very much whether I could continue to love her.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by StarrmanGood point Starrman.
Yes, but unconditional means that it wouldn't matter what happened, nothing could break that bond. This is not the same as a natural instinct to love someone.
Unconditional-to-a-point love, I could believe in, but for example were my mother to murder my girlfriend (or any number of other scenarios), I doubt very much whether I could continue to love her.
The scripture says that it is difficult to die for a good man, let alone for a sinful man ... more than forgive, but to die for. Christ not only forgave, but died for those who killed Him ... and for all who would believe in Him.
That truly is the love of God, unconditional, regardless of whether you are simply a gossip or murderer ... it is completely unconditional.
It is truly the kindness of God that led me to repentance.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by StarrmanThat's because you, like nearly everyone, has attachment to self and other, a relative, conditioned duality. If you were able to transcend that duality your viewpoint would be very different. As attachment to self lessens, compassion for others ensnared in limitless ignorance is strengthened. I'm not saying it is any small thing to accomplish, but I think it is possible. At the point that you reached such an unconditional state, you likely would not have a girlfriend because you would clearly see that your 'love' for one another is conditioned by your own attachments and not from selflessness.
Yes, but unconditional means that it wouldn't matter what happened, nothing could break that bond. This is not the same as a natural instinct to love someone.
Unconditional-to-a-point love, I could believe in, but for example were my mother to murder my girlfriend (or any number of other scenarios), I doubt very much whether I could continue to love her.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54And you believe aiming for such a state is the correct thing to do? I would be interested to hear more about his. Would you care to elaborate on how and why such a state would be achieved?
That's because you, like nearly everyone, has attachment to self and other, a relative, conditioned duality. If you were able to transcend that duality your viewpoint would be very different. As attachment to self lessens, compassion for others ensnared in limitless ignorance is strengthened. I'm not saying it is any small thing to accomplish, but I think ...[text shortened]... your 'love' for one another is conditioned by your own attachments and not from selflessness.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by Acts29God's love is far from unconditional. In fact it is love under threat of violence. Accept god or go to hell.
Good point Starrman.
The scripture says that it is difficult to die for a good man, let alone for a sinful man ... more than forgive, but to die for. Christ not only forgave, but died for those who killed Him ... and for all who would believe in Him.
That truly is the love of God, unconditional, regardless of whether you are simply a gossip or murderer ... it is completely unconditional.
It is truly the kindness of God that led me to repentance.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by StarrmanI believe you should live your life as you best see fit.
And you believe aiming for such a state is the correct thing to do? I would be interested to hear more about his. Would you care to elaborate on how and why such a state would be achieved?
Such a state can only be achieved by understanding one's mind in its pure state, free from attachment to the illusory self.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54But to detach yourself fully is to elimintate the link between you and society is it not? You would be taking away all the instincts that have caused society to grow as it has. Surely such a state is not condusive to the furtherance of the species? Or have I misunderstood?
I believe you should live your life as you best see fit.
Such a state can only be achieved by understanding one's mind in its pure state, free from attachment to the illusory self.
I would like clarification on the 'illusory self' if possible. Do you mean that the self is illusory, or that there is something called the 'illusory self' which is seperate to the'self'?
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by StarrmanThat is a common misconception.
God's love is far from unconditional. In fact it is love under threat of violence. Accept god or go to hell.
We are not given life because we believe in Jesus and condemned because we don't believe in Him.
We are ALL doomed to hell because our sin is unacceptable from the perspective of the eternal, perfect, just, holy God ... remember, our perspective is pretty limited, we compare ourselves with the people around us, makes us seem pretty ok.
God offers unconditionally to take on Himself the death we ALREADY deserve because of our sin. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved ... from the justice that their sin deserves. He was punished for our misconduct.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by StarrmanMaybe a new thread is called for? 🙂
But to detach yourself fully is to elimintate the link between you and society is it not? You would be taking away all the instincts that have caused society to grow as it has. Surely such a state is not condusive to the furtherance of the species? Or have I misunderstood?
I would like clarification on the 'illusory self' if possible. Do you mean ...[text shortened]... usory, or that there is something called the 'illusory self' which is seperate to the'self'?
No, lessening attachment to one's self does not necessarily mean a person shuns all communal ties. Actually, quite the opposite. A person can more fully open themselves to others when the incessant need to buoy 'self' is eased.
"Illusory" self means that the feeling of self is imputed onto thoughts, feelings, emotions and such as a real, unchanging entity. When a person looks for this self, this entity that seems to be so real and vivid, no self can be found. The person can cultivate real love and compassion because they know directly that others operate through ignorance of their actual nature, causing themselves and others great pain and difficulties whether intended or not.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54Yes perhaps a new thread should be created. Could you point me to anywhere I can research this some more? I am unfamiliar with the notion and am interested to learn more.
Maybe a new thread is called for? 🙂
No, lessening attachment to one's self does not necessarily mean a person shuns all communal ties. Actually, quite the opposite. A person can more fully open themselves to others when the incessant need to buoy 'self' is eased.
"Illusory" self means that the feeling of self is imputed onto thoughts, feelings, ...[text shortened]... ctual nature, causing themselves and others great pain and difficulties whether intended or not.