What does atheism/skepticism have to offer?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Well, if Heaven is a made-up story, then the person who is more afraid of death is the one who hasn't yet bought the story. Hence, the story, if you see what I mean ...
😉

Then do you disagree with the following statement of Rob?

Originally posted by rwingett
Any positive attributes provided by theism could easily be gotten from non-theistic sources without having to indulge all the negative baggage that theism entails.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Tell me, who is more afraid of death - the man who is comfortable making sacrifices (including that of his own life) because he knows that death is not the end and that there is always something much better ahead?

Or the man who feels that death is the end of existence and every moment not used to maximise his pleasure is another moment wasted?

...[text shortened]... ment as it can hold, then you've missed a trick.

Tell me - who fears death more?

I think not fearing death doesn't sound half as positive as appreciating life.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Tell me, who is more afraid of death - the man who is comfortable making sacrifices (including that of his own life) because he knows that death is not the end and that there is always something much better ahead?

Or the man who feels that death is the end of existence and every moment not used to maximise his pleasure is another moment wasted?

ment as it can hold, then you've missed a trick.

Tell me - who fears death more?

That's exactly my point; belief in an afterlife is presented as an antidote to our fear of death. Since a fear of death is seemingly innate, this explains the popularity of religion - the point being addressed. You really should try reading an entire post rather than parsing it into soundbites that you promptly go about misunderstanding.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I guess so.

In my question the most outstanding sophist at RHP is Coletti, hands down.

Or hands flapping wildly about like a trapped bird's wings.

I recced the above because this is surely right; one has no fear death BECAUSE one believes in an afterlife, not the other way around.

Originally posted by dottewell
Or hands flapping wildly about like a trapped bird's wings.

I recced the above because this is surely right; one has no fear death BECAUSE one believes in an afterlife, not the other way around.

I must be a retard or something, 'cause I can't find any post claiming "the other way around". :

Perhaps I'm not looking back far enough?

Originally posted by stocken
I must be a retard or something, 'cause I can't find any post claiming "the other way around". :

Perhaps I'm not looking back far enough?

Claim: religion is popular because it assuages a fear of death (No1, p1)
Retort: but relgious people fear death less than non-religious people (LH, p6)

Problem: retort is perfectly consistent with claim.

[edited because I am apparently unable to count up to six]

Originally posted by stocken
I think not fearing death doesn't sound half as positive as appreciating life.

A question for you - whose life?

Originally posted by dottewell
Claim: religion is popular because it assuages a fear of death (No1, p1)
Retort: but relgious people fear death less than non-religious people (LH, p6)

Problem: retort is perfectly consistent with claim.

[edited because I am apparently unable to count up to six]

Aaaah, very good. 🙂

So, you're saying that people's fear of death is not the underlying cause of the popularity of such religions as christianity, since their followers clearly doesn't fear death (as much as non-believers)?

But...

...the reason they don't fear death as much is because of the religion. See?

Originally posted by stocken
...the reason they don't fear death as much is because of the religion. See?

Has anyone bothered to define death?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
A question for you - whose life?

Everyone's life. Just like I can be afraid of dying and afraid of loosing those whom I love, I can appreciate life and the life's of those whom I cherish.

How far does this appreciation of life stretch? Do I appreciate the life of a pathological liar? Do I appreciate the life of a pedophile pastor who defile my own daughter or son? Do I cherish the life of a polititian? How far does my appreciation for life stretch?

I suppose that's what you were getting at?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Has anyone bothered to define death?

Isn't that what this is all about? If death is defined as an absolute and irreversable end to your existence, then you'd tend to cling to life much more desperately than if you believe death is just a crossing to a higher existence.

Originally posted by stocken
Isn't that what this is all about? If death is defined as an absolute and irreversable end to your existence, then you'd tend to cling to life much more desperately than if you believe death is just a crossing to a higher existence.

What if it's really your ego that's worried about death? Ego-transcendence can eliminate fear of death, according to the brochure.

Originally posted by no1marauder
That's exactly my point; belief in an afterlife is presented as an antidote to our fear of death. Since a fear of death is seemingly innate, this explains the popularity of religion - the point being addressed.

You see, therein lies the problem with your explanation. People do not believe in religion simply because it addresses the fear of death.

Here's an analogy. Suppose my company were laying off employees, and I had a fear of losing my job. Suppose a colleague (who does not possess any "inside" information) were to tell me "Don't be afraid, you won't lose your job" - that would do nothing to mitigate my fear. However, if this colleague were to tell me "Don't be afraid, you won't lose your job because you've been performing well/I have inside information that your job is not under threat/etc.", then that would mitigate my fear (but only if I have reason to believe he is reliable/correct).

A human being's fear of death is not mitigated simply because a priest or a monk or a guru tells him that death is not the end. He will not believe in a religion simply because it has an answer to his fears. He must have other reasons for believing the religion to be true and, hence, true about the afterlife as well.

Losing the fear of death is an effect of believing in religion, but religion was not created to mitigate the fear of death.

Originally posted by stocken
Everyone's life. Just like I can be afraid of dying and afraid of loosing those whom I love, I can appreciate life and the life's of those whom I cherish.

How far does this appreciation of life stretch? Do I appreciate the life of a pathological liar? Do I appreciate the life of a pedophile pastor who defile my own daughter or son? Do I cherish the life o ...[text shortened]... How far does my appreciation for life stretch?

I suppose that's what you were getting at?

Not really. I can understand why a person would cherish his own life. But why would he cherish another person's, especially over his own?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
What if it's really your ego that's worried about death? Ego-transcendence can eliminate fear of death, according to the brochure.

Ego-transcendence?

Is that transcendence in Kant's meaning of the word? So, through ego-transcendence you would reach beyond your limited understanding of the world and put your self* in relation to the objects around you as opposed to your ego in contrast with the same?

I'm not sure I follow you here so please set me straight, if you meant something completely different.

(*) Yes, two words, self as in ego.