04 Jan 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerYou often bring this one up. I really don't understand why an imaginative, compassionate person wouldn't cherish another's life...not to mention all other life...seeing themselves in all other things..."Eternity in a grain of sand"...you dig?
I can understand why a person would cherish his own life. But why would he cherish another person's, especially over his own?
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerThere's a flaw to your reasoning. Or so I believe. 🙂
You see, therein lies the problem with your explanation. People do not believe in religion simply because it addresses the fear of death.
Here's an analogy. Suppose my company were laying off employees, and I had a fear of losing my job. Suppose a colleague (who does not possess any "inside" information) were to tell me "Don't be afraid, you won't ...[text shortened]... believing in religion, but religion was not created to mitigate the fear of death.
The analogy you made of you loosing your job, is actually very accurate. The question is indeed if you believe in your collegue, or not. If you do, it will calm you. If you don't, it won't. Just like you said.
Now, we humans have a tendency to constantly believe what we want to believe. That's why we're so easily fooled and taken advantage of. To prepare us for adulthood, we have to be taught not to be naïve and gullible as children. It seems to me that christians believe in something that can never be proven, because they want to believe.
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI have taken interest in buddhism lately, so I'll probably get to the part of ego-transcendence soon enough. I'll understand then how it compares (if at all) to Kant's definition of the word. 🙂
I was thinking about Buddhism...I'm not very well up on my Kant...
I think buddhism could have a lot to offer in terms of understanding my inner self, which is the main reason I'm slowly drifting towards it.
I think you could be right about the ego being the "fear of death"-inducer, though. Supposedly, this ego-transendence would help me get past that? How?
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by stockenThe story goes, your ego is an illusion...you are the same as everything that exists...realise that & you're free of all fears...when you die, you merge with the source of life...your identity is not important. (Another way is to say that death is part of life...it completes you).
Supposedly, this ego-transendence would help me get past that? How?
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThat's beautiful. I really want to believe that. 🙂
The story goes, your ego is an illusion...you are the same as everything that exists...realise that & you're free of all fears...when you die, you merge with the source of life...your identity is not important. (Another way is to say that death is part of life...it completes you).
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage😵
Ha ha ha ha ha...And there I was thinking I wasn't making any sense at all...Come closer, and I shall teach you how to overcome your ego...here, take a look at this brochure...
I'm serious, though. The "your identity is not important" part, is very much in line with my own thinking at the moment. That seen from the outside, the importance of our existence is insignificant.
And the rest is a soothing tale to help me cope with the fear of death. Like I said: Beautiful.
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by stockenThe analogy you made of you loosing your job, is actually very accurate. The question is indeed if you believe in your collegue, or not. If you do, it will calm you. If you don't, it won't. Just like you said.
There's a flaw to your reasoning. Or so I believe. 🙂
The analogy you made of you loosing your job, is actually very accurate. The question is indeed if you believe in your collegue, or not. If you do, it will calm you. If you don't, it won't. Just like you said.
Now, we humans have a tendency to constantly believe what we want to believe ...[text shortened]... believe in something that can never be proven, because they want to believe.
More than that. No matter how much you want to believe your colleague, it will not calm you unless you have a good reason to. So, for instance, if your colleague has an unreliable past, you will not be calmed unless he provides some seemingly solid justification for believing him this time.
Now, we humans have a tendency to constantly believe what we want to believe. That's why we're so easily fooled and taken advantage of.
Think about conmen. Do they just appear at your door and say, "Give me $100 (although I'm a complete stranger to you) and I'll come back to you with $10,000 in a week"? No, they say something like "I'm an agent for XYZ bank; we have a special scheme; see, here's my ID card etc."
No matter how much we want the outcome, we believe because we see something that justifies that belief. That something may be refuted by others, or even by oneself on further thinking. Nevertheless, there is always a prima facie rational justification.
To prepare us for adulthood, we have to be taught not to be naïve and gullible as children.
Or so we think 😉. Children are not as naive and gullible as we think they are.
It seems to me that christians believe in something that can never be proven, because they want to believe.
I thought we were talking about religion in general, not just Christianity.
I personally think that Christianity is one of the harder religions to believe in and, if people simply believed in what they wanted to believe, they would've rejected Christianity long ago. After all, Christianity is one of the few religions that still has strong teachings about sexuality, the necessity of charity and even the more mundane teachings about attending church on Sundays. If people believed what they wanted to believe, there are plenty of simpler options out there that have none of the restrictions but all the benefits.
We want to believe there is such a thing as a free lunch. However we don't.
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageBecause, no matter how imaginative we are, we know the difference between our own fantasy and reality. I can imagine being in someone else's shoes, but I know I am not. I could have been; but as long as I am not, and never likely to be, why should I bother?
I really don't understand why an imaginative, compassionate person wouldn't cherish another's life...not to mention all other life...seeing themselves in all other things..."Eternity in a grain of sand"...you dig?
You talk about "seeing [oneself] in all other things". What's the justification for such a belief? Even if I held such a belief, do I not know the difference between myself and, say, yourself or a tree? If such a belief is not justified by my experience, why should I hold it?
04 Jan 06
2 edits
Originally posted by lucifershammerI think your conman analogy pretty much dunks it, so I'll rest my case. 😏
[b]The analogy you made of you loosing your job, is actually very accurate. The question is indeed if you believe in your collegue, or not. If you do, it will calm you. If you don't, it won't. Just like you said.
More than that. No matter how much you want to believe your colleague, it will not calm you unless you have a good r We [i]want to believe there is such a thing as a free lunch. However we don't.[/b][/i]
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerNo-one's holding a gun to your head. (You seem to imply that people have no reason to behave decently unless threatened with punishment.)
You talk about "seeing [oneself] in all other things". What's the justification for such a belief? Even if I held such a belief, do I not know the difference between myself and, say, yourself or a tree? If such a belief is not justified by my experience, why should I hold it?
At a push I could probably tell the difference between you and a tree. Can you tell the similarity?