21 Apr 16
3 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneI think it's hilarious when "Christians" try to explain what Jesus wants from us by citing the words of those other than Jesus.
I think it's hilarious when unbelievers try to explain what Jesus wants from us.
I think it's hilarious when "Christians" try to explain what Jesus wants from us by taking the words of Jesus out of context and / or twisting them to conform to the words of those other than Jesus.
Actually, I find it sad rather than "hilarious".
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21 Apr 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"Read the words of Jesus while He walked the Earth and you will see all of the above. Read the words of others and you will see something very different."
If you want to understand what Jesus wants from his followers, you need to look to on what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth - not on what others taught. One needs to understand His words - not just understand His words, but believe His words - not just believe His words, but follow his words - not just follow His words, but KEEP His words - KEEP His ...[text shortened]... sus. Yet inexplicably they call themselves "followers of Jesus". No wonder that you're confused.
The words attributed to Jesus are not first hand, but recorded a considerable time after his death. How do you know that these are indeed the words of Jesus or that they haven't been corrupted, deliberately or otherwise? Perhaps, even when reading the words of Jesus, you are reading the words of others...
21 Apr 16
1 edit
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeBy and large, the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth are reasonably coherent. It is the concepts conveyed by those words that cohere that are of value.
"Read the words of Jesus while He walked the Earth and you will see all of the above. Read the words of others and you will see something very different."
The words attributed to Jesus are not first hand, but recorded a considerable time after his death. How do you know that these are indeed the words of Jesus or that they haven't been corrupted, ...[text shortened]... otherwise? Perhaps, even when reading the words of Jesus, you are reading the words of others...
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21 Apr 16
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI like some of this and could have written it myself. Here's the part I could have written -
"Ultimately, it's about transformation. Transformation from a "bad tree" to a "good tree".
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That's not bad at all.
" Jesus wants his followers to become a son of God as He is a son of God, i.e., Jesus wants his followers to become one with God as He is one with God, i. e., one with the will of God, i. e. one who does not go against the will of God"
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That's right.
Now some parts I would have concern about:
" If you want to understand what Jesus wants from his followers, you need to look to on what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth - not on what others taught. "
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We cannot be too general. Otherwise we would also not listen to ToO. Afterall he IS one of the "others" who is right now teaching us.
"Only listen to Jesus while He was on earth." So we should not listen to ToO who is one of the "others" coming after the earthly ministry of Jesus telling us how to follow Jesus.
This is self refuting reasoning.
So on a case by case basses we do listen to the disciples of Jesus after His ascension. Incidentally, this WAS part of what Jesus taught during His earthly walk -
" He who receives you [the twelve apostles, no doubt] receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who has sent Me." (Matt. 10:40)
Jesus did not say reject those who are sent by Me. He taught on the earth that those whom He sent, we should receive and listen to.
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21 Apr 16
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Again:
" Truly, truly, I say to you, He who receives whomever I shall send receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." (John 13:20)
So discernment is needed to detect if one is sent by Jesus. And some discernment is needed to see if a man is faithful to what Jesus spoke. And most of all discernment is needed that one claiming to come in the name of Jesus LIVES in the realm of Jesus, displays Jesus, and manifests Jesus.
The teaching does not say every disciple is infallible.
The leading disciple of the 12 was arguably Peter. Peter made many mistakes before and after the ascension of Jesus. A perfect apostle or a perfect disciple has not existed.
Still, we do not reject that one on general principle. The Holy Spirit in the disciples will be the Helper to grow in discernment concerning the faithfulness of any given disciple of Jesus and her or his teaching.
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21 Apr 16
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" One needs to understand His words - not just understand His words, but believe His words - not just believe His words, but follow his words - not just follow His words, but KEEP His words - KEEP His words as He kept His father's words. "
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This sounds very good. But if ToO means Jesus is dead, regardless of how good it may sound, it is not Christ's teaching. Since in the years I have had encounters with ToO, it seems nearly impossible to get ToO to come out and tell whether he teaches a RESURRECTED Son of God or not.
If Christ is not risen from the dead, the entire New Testament is useless.
If Christ is not risen and supernaturally AVAILABLE we can forget about the words of Jesus - eat, drink, for tomorrow we die.
But if as Paul said in his chapter about resurrection -
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Then we can "eat" Jesus when we take in His words. We can "receive" Jesus as the divine life imparting Holy Spirit. And we can live BY this indwelling Christ.
This is what Jesus taught before His ascension into heaven. And this is what some apostles pioneered into as their personal and corporate experience. And this is also what Jesus predicted concerning His resurrection state. Because He will live in resurrection, His disciples also will live.
" Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me, because I live, you also shall live.
In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:19,20)
21 Apr 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo--- if I have this straight--- it's hilarious once, even hilarious twice, but at the end of all it, it's really just sad.
I think it's hilarious when "Christians" try to explain what Jesus wants from us by citing the words of those other than Jesus.
I think it's hilarious when "Christians" try to explain what Jesus wants from us by taking the words of Jesus out of context and / or twisting them to conform to the words of those other than Jesus.
Actually, I find it sad rather than "hilarious".
Maybe you should invest in a good internet thesaurus.
21 Apr 16
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWhy bother complaining about this anyway? We are all going to give an account for every
So--- if I have this straight--- it's hilarious once, even hilarious twice, but at the end of all it, it's really just sad.
Maybe you should invest in a good internet thesaurus.
word we speak...it isn't like this isn't something God doesn't care about. The only thing that
does matter is that Christ is preached, even Paul acknowledge some do it for good
reasons and other bad, but at least Christ is preached. If someone wants to be the judge
of, if all are doing it right, let them! Again we all will given an account to the only one that
matters it will work out in the end.
21 Apr 16
Originally posted by KellyJaySo... sad or hilarious?
Why bother complaining about this anyway? We are all going to give an account for every
word we speak...it isn't like this isn't something God doesn't care about. The only thing that
does matter is that Christ is preached, even Paul acknowledge some do it for good
reasons and other bad, but at least Christ is preached. If someone wants to be the judge
o ...[text shortened]... m! Again we all will given an account to the only one that
matters it will work out in the end.
21 Apr 16
Originally posted by wolfgang59I'm not sure what you mean? I think the 'belief' issue is the first to address. Some don't believe that Jesus was even a real person. Some believe He was a man only, and others believe that He was in fact God. I would think that coming to terms with the truth about Jesus is the starting point.
You paint a very narcissistic picture of your saviour!
Even among Christians, the Trinity has been long debated, and does one need to 'believe' something specific to be deemed a Christian?
Originally posted by SuzianneI think its hilarious that believers think they know better than unbelievers, like they have some special understanding or secret decoder ring that helps them read the Bible.
I think it's hilarious when unbelievers try to explain what Jesus wants from us.
Simply having a look around at the vast number of denominations and interpretations out there should convince any sane person that if secret decoder rings exist, there are not a whole lot of them, and its certainly not a case of every Christian owning one and every unbeliever not having one.
21 Apr 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSuzianne has a point, an atheist either thinks that Jesus was just a man who died a couple of thousand years ago or thinks he didn't exist at all; either way they can't consistently claim that Jesus wants anything at all.
I think it's hilarious when "Christians" try to explain what Jesus wants from us by citing the words of those other than Jesus.
I think it's hilarious when "Christians" try to explain what Jesus wants from us by taking the words of Jesus out of context and / or twisting them to conform to the words of those other than Jesus.
Actually, I find it sad rather than "hilarious".
Originally posted by twhiteheadAh, the old secret decoder ring, pulled out of the ass once again.
I think its hilarious that believers think they know better than unbelievers, like they have some special understanding or secret decoder ring that helps them read the Bible.
Simply having a look around at the vast number of denominations and interpretations out there should convince any sane person that if secret decoder rings exist, there are not a who ...[text shortened]... and its certainly not a case of every Christian owning one and every unbeliever not having one.
Are you able to decipher the true meaning, what with all that fecal matter obscuring the truth and all?
EDIT: Douche.