What does Jesus want from us?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I understand the question full well. I also understand that you have been "set free" from sin. I can turn this right around and say the exact same thing to you.

This ought to be interesting.

I understand the question full well.
Here was the question:

If any given individual answers "Yes", how exactly does it show that Jesus could not have meant that his true disciples will be set free from committing sin?

Here was your response:

Yes, Jesus meant what he said, with conditions.

By all means, show EXACTLY how THAT response answered the question above.

Or are we going to be treated to yet more prevarication?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Judas Impaled himself with his sword, much like Japanese Samurai's. This was a common form of suicide.
You can see it in Samuel 31:4 where Saul impaled himself on his sword. This also is called hanging because the person was at times hung on his sword, or a pole..
Haman in Esther 7:10; 8:7; 9:13, 14 was "hung" but the typical Assyrian hanging was to impale someone on a high pole to intimidate their enemies.

Sorry, I'm not buying that, this is what is in Samuel:

4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

1 Samuel 31:4 AKJV

There is no mention of hanging. I really don't think that the unqualified words "hanged himself" can be read as anything other than hanging with rope, especially since the translators refer to Saul falling on his sword in Samuel. Impalement and crucifixion may be described as hanging but aren't the same as falling on one's sword. Besides this still leaves the issue of who bought the field.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Why would that necessarily make it "impossible for a human being to NOT commit sin"?

Jesus explicitly states that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin (John 8:31-35). Jesus also says that He will judge. Shouldn't He be in a better position to know than you?

Perhaps you are reading things into certain verses / passages that are not there? If you have specific verses / passages in mind, then list them.

I'm not exactly sure what you are suggesting. I am looking for your opinion ThinkOfOne, if YOU think it is possible for a human being to NOT commit sin. I already gave my opinion that every human will commit some sort of sin, and that maybe there are NO true disciples.

What is your opinion?

I am not attempting to be combative here, I just think that whatever point is trying to be made may be getting lost.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
This ought to be interesting.

[b]I understand the question full well.
Here was the question:

If any given individual answers "Yes", how exactly does it show that Jesus could not have meant that his true disciples will be set free from committing sin?

Here was your response:
[quote]Yes, Jesus meant what he said, with conditions. ...[text shortened]... esponse answered the question above.

Or are we going to be treated to yet more prevarication?[/b]

This is now getting boring. Let's move on..
I don't know what you're looking to achieve.

Originally posted by chaney3
I'm not exactly sure what you are suggesting. I am looking for your opinion ThinkOfOne, if YOU think it is possible for a human being to NOT commit sin. I already gave my opinion that every human will commit some sort of sin, and that maybe there are NO true disciples.

What is your opinion?

I am not attempting to be combative here, I just think that whatever point is trying to be made may be getting lost.

What exactly do you mean by "NOT commit sin"? Do you mean to have never committed sin or to stop committing sin or something else?

I took it to mean "stop committing sin" since that's what I"ve been talking about.

Yes, I believe it possible for a human being to stop committing sin and Jesus not only says it's possible, but that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
This is now getting boring. Let's move on..
I don't know what you're looking to achieve.

No surprise to see yet more prevarication. It's as if you can't help yourself. Not exactly the first time that someone has used "this is now getting boring" in order to avoid having to admit to having made a false claim.

It's been a long stream of pretense, disingenuousness and prevarication from you.

I've just been pointing it out.

Like I told chaney3:
"BTW, I don't really expect checkbaiter to stop with the prevarication and disingenuosness. It's the way they hold on to their beliefs. They have to keep them away from the light of truth."

You keep making claims that don't hold up to scrutiny, so you keep finding ways to avoid having to face that fact.

What's next? Pretending to play the victim? It's been done before.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
No surprise to see yet more prevarication. It's as if you can't help yourself. Not exactly the first time that someone has used "this is now getting boring" in order to avoid having to admit to having made a false claim.

It's been a long stream of pretense, disingenuousness and prevarication from you.

I've just been pointing it out.

Like I told ...[text shortened]... having to face that fact.

What's next? Pretending to play the victim? It's been done before.

How about what you just told him. Do you expect anyone to believe that you no longer sin?

Originally posted by DeepThought
Sorry, I'm not buying that, this is what is in Samuel:[quote] 4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

1 Samuel 31:4 [b]AKJV ...[text shortened]... he same as falling on one's sword. Besides this still leaves the issue of who bought the field.[/b]

The dogma clearly states that the Bible contains absolutely no contradictions making it incumbent on the believer to reconcile all contradictions by any means necessary no matter how irrational. From what I can tell, the ability to do so is often seen as a test of ones belief. As a test that the Holy Spirit is truly functioning within the individual.

It's a real problem.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The dogma clearly states that the Bible contains absolutely no contradictions making it incumbent on the believer to reconcile all contradictions by any means necessary no matter how irrational. From what I can tell, the ability to do so is often seen as a test of ones belief. As a test that the Holy Spirit is truly functioning within the individual.

It's a real problem.

You are again making assumptions that are not true. I never heard of any dogma stating any such thing.
The original word as spoken by holy men of God, is what I am talking about.
We have no originals just copies.
You should read the "New Testament Documents " by FF Bruce

Originally posted by checkbaiter
How about what you just told him. Do you expect anyone to believe that you no longer sin?

You've repeatedly demonstrated that thinking rationally isn't one of your strong suits. But just for grins, I'd be interested in seeing whatever text you're using as the basis for your question. Why don't you paste it in your response and explain in detail exactly how you got from the text to your question?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You've repeatedly demonstrated that thinking rationally isn't one of your strong suits. But just for grins, I'd be interested in seeing whatever text you're using as the basis for your question. Why don't you paste it in your response and explain in detail exactly how you got from the text to your question?

I'm not sure what's going on here, but I have asked you the same question ThinkOfOne. You have told us what Jesus said, but I am asking YOU......do you think that it is possible for a human being to be sin-free? I believe that a yes or no is what I am looking for, and then we can continue.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are again making assumptions that are not true. I never heard of any dogma stating any such thing.
The original word as spoken by holy men of God, is what I am talking about.
We have no originals just copies.
You should read the "New Testament Documents " by FF Bruce

That's odd seeing as you posted the following in response to one of my posts:
"Either the whole bible is the word of God or none of it is. Any apparent contradictions are either in translation errors, or our understanding."

Those are your words aren't they?

Originally posted by chaney3
I'm not sure what's going on here, but I have asked you the same question ThinkOfOne. You have told us what Jesus said, but I am asking YOU......do you think that it is possible for a human being to be sin-free? I believe that a yes or no is what I am looking for, and then we can continue.

I think you might have missed my response to you earlier on this page. Did you?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I think you might have missed my response to you earlier on this page. Did you?

You are correct, I missed it, apologies. But now I don't know what to say, your answer is a surprise to me.

Originally posted by chaney3
You are correct, I missed it, apologies. But now I don't know what to say, your answer is a surprise to me.

No problem.

Why don't you read back through our conversation starting on page 24? Chances are good that something will come to you.