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05 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYes they are. However I had to rephrase it.
That's odd seeing as you posted the following in response to one of my posts:
"Either the whole bible is the word of God or none of it is. Any apparent contradictions are either in translation errors, or our understanding."
Those are your words aren't they?
But I think that most versions of the bible are fairly accurate. Not 100% but my guess is at least 90% as it stands, probably higher.
05 May 16
Originally posted by checkbaiterSo your argument is that the original didn't contradict itself, but errors crept in during copying as a consequence of which there are contradictions in the copies? The problem is that it's the copies that most of us refer to as being the Bible.
You are again making assumptions that are not true. I never heard of any dogma stating any such thing.
The original word as spoken by holy men of God, is what I am talking about.
We have no originals just copies.
You should read the "New Testament Documents " by FF Bruce
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05 May 16
1 edit
Originally posted by DeepThoughtExactly. But we can and have gotten closer to the originals, and it is being done as we speak. That is why I mention F.F. Bruce and the New Testament Documents. Incredible read.
So your argument is that the original didn't contradict itself, but errors crept in during copying as a consequence of which there are contradictions in the copies? The problem is that it's the copies that most of us refer to as being the Bible.
http://www.bible.ca/b-new-testament-documents-f-f-bruce.htm
Originally posted by checkbaiterEarlier on this thread I posted the following:
There much other research of the original text. I have used the REV link here many times, along with commentary, but at this stage it is only NT.
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/
Of course you can't make sense of [the Bible]. The Bible is filled with inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions. Though most refuse to admit it, they pick and choose the verses and passages that support their beliefs and dismiss those that don't and often do so in a most disingenuous manner
.
.
The dogma clearly states that the Bible contains absolutely no contradictions making it incumbent on the believer to reconcile all contradictions by any means necessary no matter how irrational. From what I can tell, the ability to do so is often seen as a test of ones belief. As a test that the Holy Spirit is truly functioning within the individual.
Anyone interested in seeing the above in action should read the document at the following link:
Appendix 12. The Role of Women in the Church
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/12/bb
It's pretty clear that those producing the REV are serving an agenda rather than a sincere attempt to arrive at the truth. It's fascinating in a sad sort of way.
05 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI've read through the conversation, and I am not yet sure what that 'something' is.
No problem.
Why don't you read back through our conversation starting on page 24? Chances are good that something will come to you.
Any chance you will just tell me? You have no idea how much I could use some helpful information at this time.
05 May 16
2 edits
Originally posted by chaney3Oh, I didn't mean anything special by it.
I've read through the conversation, and I am not yet sure what that 'something' is.
Any chance you will just tell me? You have no idea how much I could use some helpful information at this time.
It was in response to this comment you made:
"But now I don't know what to say, your answer is a surprise to me."
I just thought that the process of rereading our discussion would spark "something" to say.
I'd suggest that you do what I suggested earlier: Analyze the words of Jesus while He walked the Earth:
Actually, I'm suggesting that you dispense with everything except what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth. So only the words attributed to Him prior to His death in Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. They are reasonably coherent. Try to piece together the major themes and the concepts that support them. He often presented the same concepts over and over again in different ways.
The themes and concepts that support them really are often quite deep and profound.
Give it a try. Take the time to reflect and really understand it. It's really important to try to go into it without any preconceived ideas. Just let His words speak for themselves.
Let me know what you think. Or if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
05 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThank you.
Oh, I didn't mean anything special by it.
It was in response to this comment you made:
"But now I don't know what to say, your answer is a surprise to me."
I just thought that the process of rereading our discussion would spark "something" to say.
I'd suggest that you do what I suggested earlier: Analyze the words of Jesus while He walked the Ea ...[text shortened]... for themselves.
Let me know what you think. Or if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
I'm still surprised with the 'sin' thing. I think you're the first person I've encountered that believes it to be possible.
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05 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI certainly don't see an agenda. What makes you think that?
Earlier on this thread I posted the following:
[quote]Of course you can't make sense of [the Bible]. The Bible is filled with inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions. Though most refuse to admit it, [b]they pick and choose the verses and passages that support their beliefs and dismiss those that don't and often do so in a most disingen ...[text shortened]... nda rather than a sincere attempt to arrive at the truth. It's fascinating in a sad sort of way.
05 May 16
Originally posted by chaney3You'll probably be equally surprised by the words of Jesus while He walked the Earth. I know they surprised me. Conceptually His teachings are pretty much antithetical to the core tenets of Christianity. I was really surprised by that Just make sure to allow His words to speak for themselves.
Thank you.
I'm still surprised with the 'sin' thing. I think you're the first person I've encountered that believes it to be possible.
05 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"Conceptually His teachings are pretty much antithetical to the core tenets of Christianity."
You'll probably be equally surprised by the words of Jesus while He walked the Earth. I know they surprised me. Conceptually His teachings are pretty much antithetical to the core tenets of Christianity. I was really surprised by that Just make sure to allow His words to speak for themselves.
This is ridiculous.
The error you make is the exact same error of the other "fringe" theists who post here. (Notable among them is Rajk, and why I compared you to him elsewhere. He routinely bad-mouths other Christians as well.) You lean unto your own understanding. What you claim is "the words of Jesus" "speaking for themselves", is merely your fringe interpretation of His words. You're just another literalist, in the mold of RJH, who claimed that Creation happened in six 24-hour days, simply because the six days of creation were said to have an "evening" and a "morning".
05 May 16
3 edits
Originally posted by DeepThoughtWell, let me offer my take on Acts 1:18.
First this is not cherry picking, checkbaiter claimed that the bible never contradicts itself. The only way of arguing with that is to find examples of the bible contradicting itself. I selected that one because I'd noticed it years ago and just had to find the relevant passages - which took a while, the other three Gospels don't mention Judas a ...[text shortened]... t nevertheless the story in Acts disagrees with the story in Matthew as to who bought the field.
Firstly, Matthew was written by Matthew, and Acts was written by Luke. Arguably, they have different writing styles. When Luke writes that "this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity", and although Judas did not buy this field personally (he had intended to, for his own monetary gain), it was bought with the wages of his unrighteousness. Luke derisively calls it his "reward" because Judas had sought to enrich himself, and yet the field ended up being purchased to serve as a place to bury strangers (Matt. 27:7), and so was no reward to him at all.
Plus he uses "this man" also because the second half of the sentence references Judas directly. "And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." Luke describes in graphic detail, as a physician might, the final end of Judas. Matthew 27:5 only says that he cast down the silver, departed, and went and hanged himself. Luke finally tells "the rest of the story." Apparently, either the rope Judas used, or the tree limb itself, broke, and this is when he died as Luke relates (or, perhaps this occurred some time after he had died from the hanging). Acts 1:19 says this is why the field became known as the Field of Blood (see Matt. 27:8 ), in addition to it being bought with "blood money" as mentioned in Matthew 27:6. As the simplest answer, it makes the most sense, and most Biblical commentators agree with this point.
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05 May 16
Originally posted by SuzianneExactly. I think Rajk and ToO are members of what I call The R.L.E.R.
[b]"Conceptually His teachings are pretty much antithetical to the core tenets of Christianity."
This is ridiculous.
The error you make is the exact same error of the other "fringe" theists who post here. (Notable among them is Rajk, and why I compared you to him elsewhere. He routinely bad-mouths other Christians as well.) You lean unto your own ...[text shortened]... ur days, simply because the six days of creation were said to have an "evening" and a "morning".[/b]
That is, the "Red Letter Edition" Religion because they only adhere or give credence to the "Red" letters spoken by Jesus.
They don't seem to understand that the Word of God was written by holy men of God, including the "red letters".
They also must not understand that the Epistles were written by revelation from Jesus Christ. So in a sense one might be able to say the whole bible is the Red Letter Edition.
05 May 16
Originally posted by wolfgang59There is no doubting the importance of the teachings of Christ in the writings of the Bible. It is only a person who thinks that Christ teachings are hard to do would try to make some other doctrine supersede that of Jesus himself.
And you know this because:
a) You are special.
b) Someone told you.
c) Other
Multiple choice - marks will be deducted for spoilt papers.
However that is an impossible task. Christ was clear on the following:
- he is greater than all the prophets and writers before him
- it is through Him that people enter the Kingdom of God
- it is by following his teachings that one can get eternal life
- he is the ONLY WAY into the Kingdom.
- many would claim to know him and be with him but it is only those that follow his commandments will get eternal life
Christians who think that professing Christ with their mouth is sufficient for eternal life are deluding themselves. Christians who likewise condemn atheists and other religions for not 'believing' are similarly mistaken. For Jesus believing is with the heart as demonstrated by good works. Christ will accept into His Kingdom all those who please him, and Christ is pleased with all who demonstrate brotherly love, which is the fulfillment of the law.