10 Sep 06
Originally posted by vistesdDuring your sabbatical apparently you became a Zen master... 🙂
In this rhythm of form and fullness and form,
how silly for the flame to fear
annihilation in the fire;
or waterdrops to be afraid
of falling once again
into the vastness of the sea.
I always liked Ram Dass's reply to the question, "is reincarnation real?"
He said, "to the extent that you think you are real, so is reincarnation."[/i]
Disappearing into the ocean is perhaps reserved for those who fully embody the understanding that their separate self is unreal...or put more precisely, is understood to be part of a vaster context that is misperceived while we're in the body.
As Ramana Maharshi said on his deathbed -- in response to the laments of troubled disciples about his immanent departure -- "where can I go? I am here."
At the nondual level, no birth, no death...
10 Sep 06
Originally posted by MetamorphosisHello, MM! Good to talk with you again. I trust you are well.
During your sabbatical apparently you became a Zen master... 🙂
I always liked Ram Dass's reply to the question, "is reincarnation real?"
He said, "to the extent that you think you are real, so is reincarnation."[/i]
Disappearing into the ocean is perhaps reserved for those who fully embody the understanding that their separate self is ...[text shortened]... departure -- "where can I go? I am here."
At the nondual level, no birth, no death...
The somebody-self can be a bit like a jack-in-the-box: jumping out again and again, crying: “I’m real! I’m real!” Paying attention to it just turns the crank. But we are habituated to thinking we’re “Jack,” and that the voice is “me.” Even when one has finally understood, there is still the “work” of leaving that crank alone. The habit dies hard...
To mix metaphors, some interesting lines by Sri H.W.L Poonja:
“Treat the ego and mind like shoes:
wear them when you need to go out
and take them off at the door when you are home.”
I suddenly realize the fingers of my mind
have taken hold once again
of the jack-in-the-box crank.
I sigh, and return to where
there is no somebody there,
watchful, watchful—only this...
11 Sep 06
Originally posted by vistesdShalom, V. Good to see you as well.
Hello, MM! Good to talk with you again. I trust you are well.
The somebody-self can be a bit like a jack-in-the-box: jumping out again and again, crying: “I’m real! I’m real!” Paying attention to it just turns the crank. But we are habituated to thinking we’re “Jack,” and that the voice is “me.” Even when one has finally understood, there is sti ...[text shortened]... I sigh, and return to where
there is no somebody there,
watchful, watchful—only this...
Poonja was quite the force of nature...the "lion of Lucknow" he used to be called.
A funny anecdote...Poonja used to give weekly satsang meetings. Toward the end of his life he'd grown quite popular and up to 300 people used to attend these meetings.
Poonja was a lifelong fan of cricket. One day when an important cricket match coincided with the timing of his weekly satsang meeting, he brought his TV to the meeting, put it in the chair that he usually sat in at the front of the room, and then sat himself down in the first row of the crowd to watch the match.
After about 15 minutes, about half of the crowd, thinking there was to be no satsang that day, left. At which point Poonja turned around, and said to the remaining people, "they think this isn't satsang."
11 Sep 06
Originally posted by ngeisler88My bad. I got too caught up in the argument I guess...😛
Just a side note: D3vilboy, I don't think your response is necessary, because I don't think that comment was directed at you. If you look at who sasquath672 was referring to, it was my post. But I thank you for responding nonetheless. Although I do find contention with what you say about mostly Christians taking offense - by his own admission sasquatch672 ...[text shortened]... , what do you sasquatch672 mean when you say you "believe the whole thing"?
11 Sep 06
Originally posted by MetamorphosisThat's some deep stuff 'morph. What you said corresponds with several cases I studied, the ghost part in particular. I knew there had to be some kind of explanation for them (poltergeists I believe are the souls of people who were extremely violent and may have been murderers or rapists when the were alive). The one thing that's a bit of a grey area for me was the subject of mediums, John Edward in particular.
In order to know what is after death, one needs to develop the ability to experience their consciousness "out" of the body (commonly called an "out of body experience", or "OBE" ).
Certain ancient cultures had organized priesthoods that mastered this ability and were able to observe in fair detail the process of transition of consciousness after de ...[text shortened]... r future life or lives, examine your present actions."
If the things he sees are real then can it be argued that a person does not really lose their sense of self in the afterlife? Also, assuming that was true, would that person's soul, re-incarnated in a new body, be able to recall past lives? I read a story a while back about a young chinese boy who told his sister one day that he wasn't "home". He said he had a wife and children and was a fisherman in another village in his previous life. When taken to the village in question, he was able to describe the lives of the people there in detail and identify where his "past self" lived.
Opinions?
12 Sep 06
Originally posted by D3vilBoyDB, I think the sense of self (ego) is retained, but altered, owing to the dissociation from the physical body.
That's some deep stuff 'morph. What you said corresponds with several cases I studied, the ghost part in particular. I knew there had to be some kind of explanation for them (poltergeists I believe are the souls of people who were extremely violent and may have been murderers or rapists when the were alive). The one thing that's a bit of a grey area for me ...[text shortened]... s of the people there in detail and identify where his "past self" lived.
Opinions?
For any who've experienced OBE, they know that while consciousness is intact (so to speak), the perception of reality is somewhat altered. It's not the same as a lucid dream, either (a dream where you know you're dreaming). Similar, but distinctly different.
As for recollection of past lives, it's rare, but case studies exist that are difficult to dismiss. From a hypothetical point of view, if reincarnation is real, then it's a good thing that we don't recall past lives, as the overlapping memories could be confusing, not to say distressing. Most people have enough with one life on their plate...