09 Mar 05
Originally posted by dk3nnyI only said that because you said all we did was suffer. If I or anyone else isn't suffering, it invalidates your claim.
Maybe you aren't but there sure as hell is a lot of people who are..
Do you know whats happening in Sudan, DRC (Congo) and Iraq at the moment? I was at a talk recently with a woman from the DRC who was telling us about the mass rapes, the rampant murder etc etc..
I think these poor people would have prefered to be left in heaven no, or do you still bel ...[text shortened]... esides, i refute your claim to know the inner thoughts of God any better than me or anyone else.
As far as the suffering in other places, you're right, it's despicable. But I don't see how it follows logically to blame God for it. Is God raping those women? Is He murdering the people?
Free will can be beautiful or it can be monstrous. But God WOULD be a monster if He didn't give us free will. But the fact that He did is a testament to His uncomparable love for us.
If we had been created in heaven, we'd have been like the angels. And since we'd still have free will, those who chose to go against God would have fallen...like Satan. And guess what, Satan can't repent.
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54Where did you get that impression? When I see violence like I do everyday, the complete lack of compassion in people, I weep. I do what I can when I can to help, both here and elsewhere. But I cannot blame God for the weakness of men. All I can do is turn to Him for comfort, which He provides. Better that than turn bitter and damn myself and others.
The world is beseiged by unspeakable inhumanity on a daily basis and this doesn't gnaw at a shred of compassion somewhere within you?
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusDarfius: "It can get pretty lonely being the only being in all of existence."
2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
If God had no concept of loneliness, why would He say it wasn't good for Adam to be alone?
What you stated is that God himself was lonely. It's two very different things to understand that someone else is lonely and being lonely oneself. You claim to know the mind of God? The arrogance!
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54God is infinite love. If He had no one and nothing to love, how could He express it? Feeling the urge to share love is a form of loneliness.
Darfius: "It can get pretty lonely being the only being in all of existence."
What you stated is that God himself was lonely. It's two very different things to understand that someone else is lonely and being lonely oneself. You claim to know the mind of God? The arrogance!
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusYou claimed you are not suffering. That's where I got it from. Thankfully, I see that you were referring to only your personal condition.
Where did you get that impression?
If one considers others' well-being as equal to or greater than one's own, a sense of suffering easily manifests from the realization of the state of the world.
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusI don't know where you get off talking like you're Gods right hand man.
I only said that because you said all we did was suffer. If I or anyone else isn't suffering, it invalidates your claim.
As far as the suffering in other places, you're right, it's despicable. But I don't see how it follows logically to blame God for it. Is God raping those women? Is He murdering the people?
Free will can be beautiful or it can ...[text shortened]... ho chose to go against God would have fallen...like Satan. And guess what, Satan can't repent.
Anyway, as for blaming God for the suffering.. I ain't, i'm just using your argument..
You said that God put us here because he was lonely. i'm saying that if this is so then a lot of suffering is a direct action of God being lonely and deciding to put us here? No? Again, seems a bit sadistic.
Why would not giving us free will be monsterous? If he created us all to love and respect one another i think it might have been a better game plan.
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by eagles54Then that must be blamed on my misunderstanding of the exact defintion meant. I am not physically suffering. I suffer emotionally on a daily basis.
You claimed you are not suffering. That's where I got it from. Thankfully, I see that you were referring to only your personal condition.
If one considers others' well-being as equal to or greater than one's own, a sense of suffering easily manifests from the realization of the state of the world.
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by dk3nnyWell, it wouldn't matter what you thought then, because all you'd be was a mindless, loving, respectful robot. Would that be better?
I don't know where you get off talking like you're Gods right hand man.
Anyway, as for blaming God for the suffering.. I ain't, i'm just using your argument..
You said that God put us here because he was lonely. i'm saying that if this is so then a lot of suffering is a direct action of God being lonely and deciding to put us here? No? Again, seems ...[text shortened]... he created us all to love and respect one another i think it might have been a better game plan.
By the way, I would say He's more of an indirect cause than direct. Suffering is a result of a LACK of God.
09 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DarfiusFree will can be beautiful or it can be monstrous. But God WOULD be a monster if He didn't give us free will. But the fact that He did is a testament to His uncomparable love for us.
I only said that because you said all we did was suffer. If I or anyone else isn't suffering, it invalidates your claim.
As far as the suffering in other places, you're right, it's despicable. But I don't see how it follows logical ...[text shortened]... ld have fallen...like Satan. And guess what, Satan can't repent.
When God gave humans free will, did God know what some of the monstrous outcomes would be? Or did he take a risk, and it just didn’t turn out the way God would’ve liked?
Free will is paradoxical: one the one hand, it means we get to choose; on the other hand it means that we have to choose. Every day we are faced with constrained choice under conditions of uncertainty in just about all aspects of our lives. Existentially, it is an “inescapable freedom.” Even if I choose to unquestioningly obey some outside “authority,” (and many people do) I still had to make that choice. I value my free will, but then what sensible choice do I have? We are not given the choice of whether or not we have such “free will;” we may know what it is like to be stripped of our freedom by human oppression, but do we know what it would be like if humanity as a whole did not have free will?
I don’t think a single one of the major religions pictures “paradise” (heaven) as a place where humans will retain and be able to exercise free will (if I’m wrong on that let me know). So one can fairly ask if free will is something God has done for us or to us.
09 Mar 05
Originally posted by vistesdChristians believe we will still have free will in Heaven. However, we will be given the wisdom to make choices that align with God's perfect will.
[b]Free will can be beautiful or it can be monstrous. But God WOULD be a monster if He didn't give us free will. But the fact that He did is a testament to His uncomparable love for us.
When God gave humans free will, did God know what some of the monstrous outcomes would be? Or did he take a risk, and it just didn’t turn out the way God would’ve li ...[text shortened]... . So one can fairly ask if free will is something God has done for us or to us.
[/b]
And we will have earned it.